Interlocking Towers - T:ANE

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Nexusdj
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Re: Interlocking Towers - T:ANE

Post by Nexusdj »

What cheesed off UK users was the posts from the manglement along the lines of "Tough , It's happening , Live with it and solve the problem yourselves , We created it but we are too busy adding more stupid functions than to be bothered to help you out" . Then you had other users telling us to basically "shut up" as the problem doesn't affect them as they are non VSR users and we are being perceived as creating additional problems .

If non of us had been on that forum shouting and demonstrating then we would be looking at a ride up the proverbial creek without a paddle . The amount of UK users left who can construct correctly working compatible scripts can be probably counted on one hand and even then those left don't all have a thorough knowledge of how UK signalling works (absolute block , TC Block etc.) .
Thankfully Andi has stepped forward , though he was the first to admit to me that he only knows basic stuff when it comes to the art of signalling , so I've already had to send him a very long email trying to explain the block signalling principles without it getting too complicated for him to understand . Testing has already started using a new script and so far the results have been very positive :D

As a footnote I've still not received a reply from Bloodnok .
I also take note now that since we've announced that we are doing the work that N3V refused to do that they have now stated that the signals should be okay to modify under existing DLS repair rules , Information they already knew that could well of been trotted out a week or more back and would of potentially prevented a lot of the backlash !!
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Re: Interlocking Towers - T:ANE

Post by cyberdonblue »

nexusdj wrote:I also take note now that since we've announced that we are doing the work that N3V refused to do that they have now stated that the signals should be okay to modify under existing DLS repair rules , Information they already knew that could well of been trotted out a week or more back and would of potentially prevented a lot of the backlash !!
I think that's a highly debatable one there, Dave. The agreement talks of making alterations/repairs to an asset so that it works with any new version of Trainz. However, these signals already DO work with T:ANE. What they conflict with is Interlocking Towers, something N3V were at great pains to impress upon us during our fallout with them. Their attitude was, "Leave IT alone and your signals will work fine."

If I were in your shoes, or Andi's, I'd be much more comfortable with Bloodnok's consent than Tony Hillier's in light of what was said before. If it came to a copyright fight, I'm not 100% sure which side of the fence a court might come down on. I suspect, however, that Bloodnok would have a strong case and N3V would very quickly wash their hands of any involvement or blame.Tread carefully, Mate.

Dave
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Re: Interlocking Towers - T:ANE

Post by chrisaw »

Hi Dave (Nexus),

Did you get an email from me?

Chris.
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Re: Interlocking Towers - T:ANE

Post by Nexusdj »

@ Chris , Yes apologies meant to reply but been busy trying to sort this out .

@Dave
Don't panic ;) , the signals themselves use a "mesh asset" tag in the mesh container of the signals config with the kuid entry pointing to Bloodnok's original signal and the mesh contained within that . The file itself contains only the corona's , the config and the new script , that's it , no meshes or original material . These new signals use Andi's kuid number not Bloodnok's so do not obsolete his work . They make use of the existing Feather and theatre indicator content .

I have a long standing agreement to modify and use Bloodnok's signal scripts and meshes for use in my own work (Latest Dormans uploaded under that on going agreement) . If all else fails then either me or one of the other signal creators who have existing permission from Bloodnok could upload these modified signals . They wouldn't be direct kuid replacements and would entail having to swop like for like on a route , A pain yes , but a solution to the problem of not getting permission direct.

This whole setup does hopefully prove that the signals can be reworked to work with the new system , Ideally with permission from Bloodnok so they are uploaded as higher Kuid2's under his original kuid number or at least under another users kuid .

The alternative is that somebody builds a complete replacement set of signals , feathers / theatre indicators and a brand new script compatible with IT for those .
Realistically there isn't anything stopping me producing new meshes and utilising the existing route indicators as per my Dorman's etc. but honestly I don't consider my work to be of a standard expected for TANE (LOD , baked textures etc.) and I don't really want to take on anymore additional work above what I've already agreed to .
Last edited by Nexusdj on Sat Nov 14, 2015 7:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Interlocking Towers - T:ANE

Post by Peter White »

Will this new script work with bloodnoks Upper Quadrant semaphore's?
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Re: Interlocking Towers - T:ANE

Post by Nexusdj »

The IT beta testers have reported that the newer semaphore script that Bloodnok had developed is compatible with this IT system .

As for his signals on the DLS and Built-in with the older VSR semaphore script I suppose they just require an upgrade to use the newer script . Obviously if permission from Bloodnok was received then that could be implemented very easily via the DLS repair system .

Without permission then we are into the realms of seeing if they will work in the same way as the aliased colourlights do . The problem here is that I don't have permission to upload his complete semaphore meshes only his semaphore script and any third party content that I'm allowed to modify that contains original work by Bloodnok , Such as the lower quadrant GW/BR semaphores that Chris kindly allowed me to modify and upload . There may be others who do have full permission to upload modified versions of his signals and there assistance would be probably be required if permission wasn't granted .
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Re: Interlocking Towers - T:ANE

Post by Kennilworth »

Hi

Peter - I've been trying out the ITs in Carlisle station on the S&C route and, with all signals on the path set to automatic, the semaphore signals appear to respond correctly. I assume that these signals will use the earlier bloodnok script.

It would seem that the developers of T:ANE have greatly reduced the time allowed for list boxes to populate so that they will now only create lists in the region of 1500 items long. When I tried the ITs on the GCR route I was trying to compare them with brummfondels path rule but found that brummfondels rule failed to fill the list box and produced a timeout script error. The same rule works fine on that route in the current retail version of T:ANE, the difference being that the SP1 beta automatically names all signals which aren't named on the GCR route. In TS12 I had no timeouts with the rule on the ECML route which has considerably more signals than the GCR.

I believe that these limits have been imposed in T:ANE to help reduce stuttering in the sim but they are going to be very restrictive on AI session creating as larger routes are going to be unusable unless some of our talented scripters can find a way of getting round this.

Regards

Brian
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Re: Interlocking Towers - T:ANE

Post by Peter White »

This may not be as bad as I originally thought. I tend to name every signal I place on my route and I think I am at about the 1000 mark so even if I have missed a few I don't think it will take me over the limit.
Also, as a stop gap, i could use the BR(W) semaphores by Chrisaw until LMS UQ where compatible. So things may be looking up.
I must say I am very grateful to all you hard working content creators and script writers that are helping us through this transition. Thankyou. :)

Peter
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Re: Interlocking Towers - T:ANE

Post by Nexusdj »

Setting any semaphore to automatic destroys the Absolute block function , The game will operate the signals in the same manor as colourlights on track circuit block .
They will be set in the off position all the time which is the complete opposite of real life where the semaphores are held in the on position until a train is offered .
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Re: Interlocking Towers - T:ANE

Post by Kennilworth »

Hi Dave

Presumably that means that semaphores are unable to be used correctly with path rules in T:ANE at the moment then? Both brummfondels and the new ITs require a signal state to be set and the signal reverts to automatic when the path is completed. Hopefully any new script changes that come from the current VSR initiative will have a way round this.

Unfortunately the two pathing rules that don't require signals to be set (_mutton_ and the SCS2013 rule) don't work in T:ANE.

Regards

Brian
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Re: Interlocking Towers - T:ANE

Post by cyberdonblue »

Looks like we weren't the only ones that had our signals torpedoed

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthre ... on-in-TANE

...and they basically got the same answer as we did at first. Yet again, Nil points for customer relations.

Dave
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Re: Interlocking Towers - T:ANE

Post by Peter White »

Kennilworth wrote:Hi Dave

Presumably that means that semaphores are unable to be used correctly with path rules in T:ANE at the moment then? Both brummfondels and the new ITs require a signal state to be set and the signal reverts to automatic when the path is completed. Hopefully any new script changes that come from the current VSR initiative will have a way round this.

Unfortunately the two pathing rules that don't require signals to be set (_mutton_ and the SCS2013 rule) don't work in T:ANE.

Regards

Brian
Brummfondels path control can be modified to allow the first signal to be set to state 'automatic' for a more prototypical signal working.

Change line 62 of path_tools.gs as follows
ORIGINAL if((state>2 and !extra) or (state>3 and extra))
NEW if(state>3)

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Re: Interlocking Towers - T:ANE

Post by Kennilworth »

Hi Peter

I would really like to be able to use the ECML route for AI sessions and the ITs are the only path setting rule that will create and activate paths on that route. Brummfondels rule has a nanny fit every time it goes near the ECML and even his Autodrive command doesn't show up for selection. It all comes back to the timeout errors which seem to affect any driver command or rule that needs to populate list boxes on the ECML route. The list is either curtailed or non existant.

I have cloned the ECML and I am steadily culling many of the trackmarks to try to make the list manageable. There are 2288 on the built in route and I would like to get them down to about 1000. This should give sufficient headroom for any extra that are needed in a session to be added on the session layer.

It looks like there will be path setting driver commands created by third parties for use with the ITs once SP1 arrives and I'm hopeful that they will work with the ECML.

Regards

Brian
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Re: Interlocking Towers - T:ANE

Post by paulper »

I'm trying to set up Interlocking Towers to replace Path Control and Path Triggers the latter sadly does not work in TANE.

Is it true that once they are set you need to use an instance of Interlocking Tower Set Path to allow trains to use the path and that you can only assign one driver at a time using 'Assign path to train'?

Thanks,
Paul
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Re: Interlocking Towers - T:ANE

Post by PFX »

Apologies for bringing up this thread again but I'm not sure if I just missed mention at some point on semaphore signals. Do the interlocking towers work with them or is it only for the colour light type signal?
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