Heavy seas (cab sway)

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PFX
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Heavy seas (cab sway)

Post by PFX »

Morning all.

I haven't seen this mentioned here or the N3V forum but is nobody else infuriated by the totally ridiculous cab sway in TANE? I'm not referring to the internal sway but that of entire carriages in the external view. As they pass an external camera or in chase mode, the level of sway would be vomit inducing for any passenger on such a train. How do I get rid of it?

My track condition is all set to 100% and it doesn't have the slightest effect. Cab sway is turned off and again, no effect. There must be something I'm missing as I can't see how people would accept this sort of physical behaviour as it is totally unrealistic.

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Re: Heavy seas (cab sway)

Post by CamJhock »

Not sure if people already know about this, but in Interface Settings, there is an option to disable cabin sway. This in addition with setting JR cab sway settings to off has made the cab sway stop entirely. However, this has not changed the external sway of the train. Hope this helps.
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Re: Heavy seas (cab sway)

Post by PFX »

Hi,

Yes, I have the cab sway disabled. It's the external sway I want to go places far away. :D

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Re: Heavy seas (cab sway)

Post by CamJhock »

Afternoon, folks.

I don't know if a solution was ever found for this, so I will share the solution I found. Also, I apologize for bumping a dead thread, but again, I never saw a solution get posted here.

There are four modifiers that control suspension that can be added to a config file of a train.
suspension-stiffness "0.1" (Defaults to 0.75, 0 is floppy and 1 is rigid)
suspension-damping "0.1" (Defaults to 0.3, 0-1 is underdamped, 1 is critically damped, and >1 is overdamped)
suspension-pitch-limit "10" (Defaults to 0.5)
suspension-roll-limit "25" (Defaults to 4)

After testing these modifiers out on Peter's EMT Class 222, I found some good numbers for the pitch and roll limits. I haven't played too much with the stiffness and damping modifiers yet, but if I find anything useful, I will post it here. My numbers are "0.125" for the pitch limit and "0.3" for the roll limit. These numbers provide for a much more realistic sway at 125mph.
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Re: Heavy seas (cab sway)

Post by PFX »

No need to apologise. As N3V don't seem to have implemented a solution I'm open to all suggestions. I though it was related to track condition but this appears to have no effect on the rough seas rails.

Cheers,
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Re: Heavy seas (cab sway)

Post by stovepipe »

Another thread resurrection, but after running a high speed route I've been appalled at the amount of drunken pitching and swaying Trainz now does in external view from TANE/TS19 onwards. A bit of digging later and it seems all traincar assets need the tags adding, as posted by CamJhock above, as the default values give stupid results with bouncing and swaying all over the place.

If anyone has the Edinburgh - Dundee route it seems the built-in Deltic has been modified to include these tags as follows:

Code: Select all

suspension-stiffness                    0.5
suspension-damping                      0.3
suspension-pitch-limit                  0.1
suspension-roll-limit                   0.1
which seems to cure the problem, and easier than changing every track segment 'condition' - for which again a stupid default value of 50% has been chosen.
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Re: Heavy seas (cab sway)

Post by PFX »

Thanks for that. I'll have to start making some amendments.

Sadly, track condition appears to have no effect on the swaying.
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Re: Heavy seas (cab sway)

Post by ScottAS2 »

stovepipe wrote:If anyone has the Edinburgh - Dundee route it seems the built-in Deltic has been modified to include these tags as follows:

Code: Select all

suspension-stiffness                    0.5
suspension-damping                      0.3
suspension-pitch-limit                  0.1
suspension-roll-limit                   0.1
which seems to cure the problem, and easier than changing every track segment 'condition' - for which again a stupid default value of 50% has been chosen.
So I had seen and dismissed this solution in the course of one of my many, many attempts to Google my way around this stupid decision of N3V's since it didn't work on the first high-speed train I always tried such things on: one of La France en Train's TGVs. On submitting edits adding these tags, the asset would go faulty with error VE181: "The tag 'suspension-stiffness' requires a minimum asset version of 3.8" and, indeed, the asset's trainz-build tag is 2.9. Yet, I've just tried it on the asset suggested above: one of Peter Hicks' 222s (<kuid2:116035:22203:1> if you'd like to play along at home) and it works fine, despite the build for that being 2.4. I even tried it on one of PFX's Intercity reskins (<kuid:298788:100052>), which have a trainz-build of 2.9, and it works there, too.

Can anyone see what I'm doing wrong? Why is the minimum asset version sometimes 3.8, and sometimes considerable lower?
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Re: Heavy seas (cab sway)

Post by stovepipe »

I think all that is going on is that at lower TB numbers, a check isn't done. These tags were not even envisaged at 2.4, but were at some point afterwards, and then were implemented part way through TANE between SP1 and SP4.

For what its worth the Deltic asset I referred to is TB 3.2, but of course errors are surpressed in built-in/payware assets.
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Re: Heavy seas (cab sway)

Post by bj1888 »

You can also add the suspension values to the engine spec.

These are what I have my 158 set to. They allow for a little bit of sway but not much. It's ok but still kinda silly looking because of the central pivot point.

Code: Select all

suspension-damping 0.05
suspension-stiffness 0.6
suspension-pitch-limit 0.24
suspension-roll-limit 0.28
These are the setting I was using when messing with a 125 engine spec. This pretty much kills the sway altogether.

Code: Select all

suspension-damping                      0.90573
suspension-stiffness                    0.964551
suspension-pitch-limit                  0.024
suspension-roll-limit                   0.028
There's probably no need for all the decimal places, but it works so I just left it.


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Re: Heavy seas (cab sway)

Post by ScottAS2 »

bj1888 wrote:You can also add the suspension values to the engine spec.
That did the trick. Hooray! No more tilt!*

*If that won't get me excommunicated from here. ;)
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Re: Heavy seas (cab sway)

Post by Mightyena »

ScottAS2 wrote:Hooray! No more tilt!
:o :o :o

In all seriousness though, this is at least a good start to fixing the swaying problem, though it doesn't solve the problem if you want to share your creations (ie. if you've built a route but are running someone else's trains on it).

I wonder what the Trainz devs were smoking when they decided that the only way to stop this "high seas" behaviour was to go around your route and manually edit every single spline section?
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Re: Heavy seas (cab sway)

Post by stovepipe »

I guess you could change the espec in the session to one using your own with the new tags added, and then save and distribute?
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Re: Heavy seas (cab sway)

Post by clam1952 »

Just wondering if you set up a length of track and then used bulk replace to "replace" your track if it would retain the settings.
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Re: Heavy seas (cab sway)

Post by Mightyena »

clam1952 wrote:Just wondering if you set up a length of track and then used bulk replace to "replace" your track if it would retain the settings.
No, since you can't select track on the route as the asset to replace with (only to be replaced), you have to use the asset list window.
stovepipe wrote:I guess you could change the espec in the session to one using your own with the new tags added, and then save and distribute?
The enginespec is attached to the train, not the route/session, so that would require you to modify and upload any trains used in the session (as well as the modified especs too)
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