Railroad Simulator 2019

General Trainz discussion and questions.
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PFX
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Railroad Simulator 2019

Post by PFX »

As ever, I'm always optimistic when I see a new sim on the horizon and this is no difference. Having had a quick look on the N3V forum, I was surprised to find comments by someone who must know more than everyone else. Not very constructive but it does make me wonder about a few things.
"Meh, it's just eye candy. Probably will have the the crappy sound engine that gives us the famous default Clickity Clack tracksound, won't allow us to use dynamic engine sounds for electric locomotives and Multiple Units, No decent squealing or screeching when going through curves, nothing but a hammer sound on a table when going over junctions. It's funny cause a free opensource railway simulator like OpenBVE does all that."
Reading the press release, it sounds like it's a continuation of the current sim (I make that assumption on the basis that backward compatibility is being mentioned). I'm fairly happy with TANE but my main gripe is, as it has been since the first version of Trainz I bought, that vehicle physics are awful when it comes to braking and acceleration, as are built in sound effects. The Other Sim has been pissing all over Trainz in that respect for a long time now (and yes, it has shortcomings in other areas).

I've been lucky over the years with my versions of Trainz, with only minor technical glitches compared to some users. I've been happy to stick with it because of the route editing side, though in all this time, I've still only managed to upload one route! If I could have the intuitive functionality of the route editor from TANE and the graphically immersive aspects of The Other Sim, I'd be very happy. That's a simplification on my part as there are other areas I'd cherry pick from both sims.

As it's a fairly niche market, I doubt we'll ever see a definitive sim that takes the best of both but as I said, I remain optimistic about the next incarnation of Trainz and look forward to seeing what we get this time (with plenty of bugs as is the N3V way :D ) I'm not going to knock it until I see it.
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Re: Railroad Simulator 2019

Post by cyberdonblue »

Having only found N3V's newsletter this morning, and coming here fresh from reading it, I can't help feeling that they're starting the old PR stuff early this time around. They talk of getting rid of the reputation of having unfixed bugs moving from one version to another for year upon year and how everything in the garden will be rosy in future, blah, blah, blah. I seem to remember a lot of that stuff from T:ANE's inevitable appearance on the market. T:ANE is now in a better place than it's ever been but there are still some serious holes in it. Will SP3 fix them? We'll see.

There are, however, many of the progressive new things recently reported in newsletters that I'm really looking forward to seeing in action but, again, on the other hand, like your good self Innis, I hanker for something much more realistic with regard to braking and acceleration physics within the "game." If they could address that with the same verve and determination that they seem to be applying to the "eye candy" (I hate that expression) then we'd see a massive forward step for Trainz. I also sympathise strongly with the person that you quote in your post, Innis. Sound, like physics, is still on a par with the earliest versions of Trainz yet we're nearly 20 years further down the line (no pun intended.)

With another version of Trainz on the horizon, the same questions arise yet again but the hope very quickly dies when the new stuff arrives on scene. New distractions pull the attention away from the old problems. Yes, the terrain looks lovely but I can't stop an EMU from 75 mph over a distance of a mile and a quarter away (when in reality I could do it in a little less than half a mile with an EP brake - and probably better with the modern brakes.) If any one here knows Birmingham International station then I can tell you that in the real world back in the 80s and 90s, when working loco hauled trains to Euston, we would aim to enter the up platform at a speed somewhere between 65 and 70 mph (with the brakes on, of course), knowing full well that - with rheostatic assistance - you could stop comfortably at the southern end of the platform without throwing tea and coffee all over your passengers. If you tried to emulate that in T:ANE you might be lucky enough to stop about a mile or so past the station.

I don't expect any of those problems to be resolved anytime soon if I'm honest, and that's what I find so disappointing. The lack of desire to resolve glaring issues like those in favour of pretty trees and weeds. How is it that we, the daily users of this software, see such massive potential for Trainz yet N3V miss the boat every time?

Cheers

Dave
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Re: Railroad Simulator 2019

Post by PFX »

Visually, I think Trainz is in a pretty good place now (though there are very few decent cabs around). I agree Dave, the sound is pretty desperate (there are a few exceptions) and outdated. The vehicle physics are awful. One good example is the HST. It takes forever to reach 40mph, at which point you can apply notch 3 without wheelslip. Compare that to the prototype and it's clear there's an issue here.

I'll part with my money though, hopeful that N3V aren't just applying another layer of glitter to the 20 year old turd that lies deep beneath.
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Re: Railroad Simulator 2019

Post by Jacks trainz »

I can quite agree the vehicle physics are pretty appalling. Hopefully this is something that the community has arisen and maybe N3V might do something about. A new physics engine maybe?

Comparing trainz to the Dovetail train simulator series, there's a lot that trainz lack in my opinion. Things like the ability to turn engines on or off, more advanced controll over trains, more realistic control over steam like cyclinder cocks, realistic firing. Better graphics, physics and sounds. There's so much more I could list.

I have been seriously considering lately wheather to purchase a copy of dovetails sim. Although there is a larger community for the train sim series, it seems like there is a lot of payware compared to trainz which is what keeps me with trainz.

Perhaps there is something quiet spectacular from n3v on the horizon. We shall just have to wait and see.

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Re: Railroad Simulator 2019

Post by PFX »

I use both sims for different things. TANE is for route creation. The Other Sim is for driving.

Yes, the big downside of The Other Sim is payware. I've probably spent a couple of hundred on it by now but not everyone can or wants to use payware.

I often wonder what N3V take from the official forum. It seems the same grumbles/suggestions pop up a lot so it would be nice if they were to address these. You'll never please everyone but physics is a big thing for a sim and that needs to be fixed.
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Re: Railroad Simulator 2019

Post by Jacks trainz »

I thought it was quite interesting to note, the latest train railroad simulator 2019 newsletter has a section towards the bottom with a new email system to contact the N3V team to discuss ideas and thoughts regarding the release.

Wheather or not they will act upon the communities ideas and thoughts is anyone's guess, but it seems like a good idea for the guys at N3V to hear what the community wants.

I did send an email with my thoughts on a new release. It will be interesting to see what happens.

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Re: Railroad Simulator 2019

Post by Briggsy »

Sadly, I won't be parting with my money on Railroad Simulator 2019 until around 2021/2022 - and yes, I'm deadly serious.

How long has TANE been out now - 3 years? Yet it's still being patched up to rectify bugs.

Why can't N3V actually finish a product they've already released so that it's working 100% correctly before they announce another version.

Yet again, I foresee another incomplete version of Trainz (Tane) because I suspect there will still be some bugs after SP3 - but N3V will lose interest on releasing further updates / a service pack 4 because they will more than likely want to crack on with Trainz Railroad 2019.

Most of us bought TANE very early on - and paid quite a bit back then for a very buggy, bordering on unusable, version of Trainz - only to find that three years down the line, when it's now fairly reliable and usable, N3V seem to be throwing out regular offers on it. The last offer I got in an email was significantly lower than when it first came out. We effectively paid a lot more to be guinea pigs! Now it's stable, they're chucking it out - to the point where I'm half expecting to see an advert soon saying "buy a KFC bargain bucket and get a free copy of TANE".

So, do I really want to pay £40+ for "Trainz Railroad 2019 - an even newer new era" that is full of bugs and not useable until 2021, whilst submitting bug reports galore - or would I rather wait until 2021 and pay £20 for a working version after some other poor suckers have submitted umpteen bug reports to get it to the stable stage? Hmmmm tough choice....

I'd also like to think that "Trainz Railroad 2019 - the newest era that is newer than the previous new era" will be less "Americanised" - and also have more content that tilts..... ;-)
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Re: Railroad Simulator 2019

Post by PFX »

That's a good point. I don't think I've ever bought software from another company quite as happy to release an incomplete program. While earlier versions in the Trainz series were fairly stable on release, the more recent ones have been most unsatisfactory. 3 years and still having to release service packs is not a good business model surely?
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Re: Railroad Simulator 2019

Post by clam1952 »

PFX wrote:That's a good point. I don't think I've ever bought software from another company quite as happy to release an incomplete program. While earlier versions in the Trainz series were fairly stable on release, the more recent ones have been most unsatisfactory. 3 years and still having to release service packs is not a good business model surely?
Uncomplete bug free program with no patches? Erm.... Microsoft?
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Re: Railroad Simulator 2019

Post by pacerguy »

I hope they bring back Multi Tracking from the 2004 2006 versions :shock:
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Re: Railroad Simulator 2019

Post by cyberdonblue »

clam1952 wrote:
PFX wrote:That's a good point. I don't think I've ever bought software from another company quite as happy to release an incomplete program. While earlier versions in the Trainz series were fairly stable on release, the more recent ones have been most unsatisfactory. 3 years and still having to release service packs is not a good business model surely?
Uncomplete bug free program with no patches? Erm.... Microsoft?
The trouble is though, Malc, one is an operating system and one is not. I'm no expert but I'd have thought that there's a lot less required in the Trainz folder than there is in the Windows folder. Furthermore, I was under the impression that, as an operating system, Windows is designed to evolve and develop whereas N3V now seem to throw the baby out with the bathwater everytime they get a new idea and then they set about screwing themselves up by trying to make it all backwards compatible.

One of these days they're going to have to bite the bullet and say, "Look fellers, this can't go on." Then they can start achieving their aims with all the fancy bells and whistles because the 1990's technology won't be like a ball and chain round their ankles. It would probably mean a big row about older content but surely there's a compromise better than the current "one size must fit all." And they can't just keep abandoning a project and moving on everytime a new concept passes under their nose. It's time N3V reeled their Sales people back into the world the rest of us live in. People are seeing through advertising nowadays. They know bullsh*t when they smell it and they'll quickly turn their nose up at it.

N3V insist on calling their software a simulator, but it is about as close to real train driving as trimming a rose bush is to felling a dozen trees in a forest. The physics are appalling and the game is dragged down further by the in game sound effects. I do very little "driving" within this game but I almost wet myself laughing when I experience an HST creeping into a platform at 15 mph accompanied by the sound of two empty rusty buffered wagons clanking back and forth against each other. I mean, come on. This is 2018 not 1818! I haven't heard wagon noises like that since I was working Class 9 freight trains back in the 1970s. That's the sort of thing that needs to be addressed and sorted out before they move on to painted on weeds and shrubs that appear as 3D items. Or how about a more satisfactory way of building tunnels instead of having to carve out huge holes in your terrain and then spend an hour hiding them? I'm sure we could build a list of things between us for N3V to consider but they are like politicians. They ask for your opinions, they tell you they are listening and that everything will be different this time. Then when the reality itself dawns it's just more of the same - and more promises of what's "in the pipeline."

Cheers

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Re: Railroad Simulator 2019

Post by PFX »

clam1952 wrote:Uncomplete bug free program with no patches? Erm.... Microsoft?
Hah! True enough but I don't see Windows as a piece of software (even though it is) as it is integral to my PC. Being more specific, I mean additional purchased programs, though I'm sure there is plenty of buggy software I'm unaware of.


I think what Dave is saying about the compatibility is correct; if each successive version is going to be backwards compatible to varying degrees, straight away there is a barrier to real progression. My personal option would be to stop with further development of the existing Trainz engine but continue support for it (and iron out any remaining bugs if the next fix doesn't get them), while creating something new to take Trainz into the future. I think I understand why N3V do it, given the millions of hours content creators have spent on the thousands of free assets available. It would be a bit of a disservice to abandon them and their work.

I hadn't meant to start babbling on and on about something I haven't seen yet so apologies. On a similar note, I sent suggestions to the 2019 email and got a reply within a few hours.
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Re: Railroad Simulator 2019

Post by Jacks trainz »

Out of curiosity what was your response from the email?

I also emailed and had a quick response
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Re: Railroad Simulator 2019

Post by PFX »

I suggested improvements to sound and engine specs. They replied and told me I could change engine spec on the test track and requested my PC specs.
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Re: Railroad Simulator 2019

Post by Jacks trainz »

I suggested some improvements and I also got asked for my specs.
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