TRS19

General Trainz discussion and questions.
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PFX
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TRS19

Post by PFX »

So here's the inevitable TRS19 thread, not to have a go at TRS19, but to get your thoughts on the pre-release announcement from N3V.


Having read and re-read the TRS19 announcement from N3V, I was a bit confused so I hopped over to the other forum to see if there is some clarification

My main query is if you want any of the goodies for TRS19, you need a subscription, otherwise it's base content plus legacy content. Seems that may well be the case if this answer from Tony means what I think it does.
I am aware that some people don't like subscriptions. I am also aware that very early on day 1, many more people are purchasing the Gold Class option than the pre-order option (by a significant margin).

I posted in another thread, but it is worth copying here as well so that we're comparing apples with apples:

Traditional Store purchases:
* TRS19 = $69.99
* FCT = $34.99/yr
* One DLC - Trainz Route: Coal Country = $39.99
Total = $145

Gold Class Membership = $149
* TRS19 included
* FCT included
* 75 DLC items included(worth hundreds of dollars)
* Preview Pass included(to enjoy all new DLC items for 14 days per-release)
* Trainz Plus included (access to new Trainz features before anyone else)
* 25% discount code (save 25% off items even when they are already on sale)
I have no intention of pursuing the subscription method but I'm also not sure if the standalone package is much use if you don't get access to the TRS19 pretty stuff without the basic membership. Okay, I buy a FCT currently but even if I don't, I can still access the features of TANE, if I'm reading this correctly, that is not the case with TRS19.

It's interesting to note that Tony suggests there has already been a high uptake of membership, especially gold. Maybe I'm just cautious but that sounds like a bit of a risk given we haven't really seen much of the new sim; some screen shots, some glossy videos. Yes, it looks very nice but my biggest gripe is there is no mention of improved vehicle physics or sound so what you essentially get is a shinier version of TANE that looks, well, it looks very good as far as I can tell, but that means nothing if trains and sounds aren't enhanced to match.

I'm going to go out on a limb though and bet that TRS19 will continue to utilise the external Rock The Boat™ vehicle sway.
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Re: TRS19

Post by blackwatch13 »

I think that after TS12 & Tane, I will again wait 12-18 months until all the bad bugs have
hopefully been worked out, then give it some consideration.
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Re: TRS19

Post by clam1952 »

No bad bugs that I'm aware of, this is a completely different release for N3V as in it works out of the box. A few minor niggles and IMO a steep learning curve for TurfFx and Clutter however my FR route imported OK and looks to be improved due to the auto application of PBR on older stuff, a few builtins missing from TANE that should appear at some point, what amazed me is I've had it running mid settings on a PhenomII 1090T X6 with GTX1060.
Been upgrading stuff 1080TI in the i7 6700K, 980TI down to number two which is a Ryzen 5 1600, nearly as good as the i7 and the 1060 to the Phenom which had a 970 with one of the fans burnt out and I'm surprised it works as well as it does given that the PC is full of old out of date components! Mixture of SataII and IDE Drives!
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Re: TRS19

Post by Nexusdj »

I did an early purchase on TANE so I'm going to wait this time . Not interested in paying US$149 a year in subscriptions which is £116 a year at the current exchange rate . I paid once for TANE and that was it . I see folks will be paying once again for the S&C route and content !

Railworks is going to have a 64 bit version released this year , that "will" have an effect on Trainz especially at the prices N3V have been quoting , 3 years hard work is no excuse for pricing yourself out of the market .... DTG will be laughing all the way to the bank !
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Re: TRS19

Post by PFX »

I'm certainly not paying for the subscription model. The more I see Mr Hilliam posting about it, the less I'm interested. DTG has been mentioned a number of times on the N3V forum and to be perfectly honest, it's a model I don't mind paying for. I own the base game, I buy DLC and own that. The model N3V propose would appear to mean I can buy DLC but if I don't maintain my subscription, I cannot use my DLC after the subscription expires, though it will still be available to me if I start to pay the subscription again (please correct me if I've got this part wrong).

The thing that is a bit of bollocksology is this early release. All the hype has suggested that you would be able to get going on TRS19 but what has actually transpired is you can start giving N3V your money now but not have anything to show for it until September (again, please correct me if I've got this wrong).

Does the NDA for beta testers cease to apply from the September 'pre-release'?
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Re: TRS19

Post by clam1952 »

Probably find DTG will be doing something similar to N3V, seems to be a trend with software and games now.
Having Beta tested it there was no way I wasn't going to buy TRS19, however not through this ridiculous Gold class discrimination subscription.
The crunch for N3V's subscription will come when they can't supply all this additional DLC and all the Goldilocks have got it all and start wondering why they are paying £149 a year for £70 game.....
And after creating a noise on the N3V forums as to why Pre-order customers were excluded from Early Access when we were led to believe everyone who wanted it could get it, as N3V backed down and Pre-orders now get it, I thought I'd better cough up.
The good thing was they patched the beta to the Early Release, all of 14MB instead of an 8GB download.

Beta testing finished today NDA has been lifted Not sure if we are getting any other beta to test although it was said, probably have to apply again.

Settle and Carlisle is included in TRS19, no need to buy it again it, just wait for it to download.

There were a few missing assets which seem to have just downloaded.
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Re: TRS19

Post by PFX »

clam1952 wrote:The crunch for N3V's subscription will come when they can't supply all this additional DLC and all the Goldilocks have got it all and start wondering why they are paying £149 a year for £70 game.....
That pretty much sums it up for me.
clam1952 wrote:Beta testing finished today NDA has been lifted Not sure if we are getting any other beta to test although it was said, probably have to apply again.
Ah, if the NDA is lifted, I will say now that I won't be buying it regardless. Yes, it's all looks absolutely superb visually and it's possible to create some incredibly good looking scenery, but that just doesn't make up for the same vehicle physics and sound we've always had more or less. I want my train simulator to be as close as possible to driving trains. N3V seem to think if it looks nice, nobody will notice.
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Re: TRS19

Post by Briggsy »

I'm looking forward to the release of "TANE: The Finished Working Product" before I buy anything else.

I certainly won't be buying TRS19 until 2021/2022 when the inevitable glitches have been fixed and they start throwing it out on deals such as buy two boxes of Kelloggs Frosties, get a copy of TRS19 free.

Its still grates on me that suckers like me paid full price for TANE whilst it was riddled with bugs - then when it became usable, they started putting it on good deals.

I was a sucker the first time I fell for it. I won't be a sucker again. As the saying goes "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.”
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Re: TRS19

Post by PFX »

^^^ HAHA!
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Re: TRS19

Post by cyberdonblue »

Briggsy wrote:I'm looking forward to the release of "TANE: The Finished Working Product" before I buy anything else.

I certainly won't be buying TRS19 until 2021/2022 when the inevitable glitches have been fixed and they start throwing it out on deals such as buy two boxes of Kelloggs Frosties, get a copy of TRS19 free.

Its still grates on me that suckers like me paid full price for TANE whilst it was riddled with bugs - then when it became usable, they started putting it on good deals.

I was a sucker the first time I fell for it. I won't be a sucker again. As the saying goes "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.”
I couldn't have put it better myself, Briggsy. It's the end of the line as far as I'm concerned. N3V can stick it where the sun don't shine. Paying for an FCT was one thing, paying a subscription just ain't happening in this neck of the woods - especially after being told with T:ANE to like it or lump it when we told dear old Tony about the difficulties interlocking towers had caused us. If he thinks we're that disposable well all I can say about his new moneymaking machine is, "F**k you very much Tony and goodnight." Now let the chickens come home to roost. (What goes around comes around.)

Tony constantly bleating on about everybody signing up for gold membership sounds to me like Category A Class 1 bullsh*t hoping to convince sheeple to jump on board. I have no plans to invest a single penny in this overpriced con any time soon.

Cheers

Dave
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Re: TRS19

Post by robd »

I have to agree with the majority of postings in this thread. I agree that buying in to the subscription when the product is 'unfinished' is a risk and the standalone option at $70 is just too pricey, and risky, at the moment.

Nevertheless, I will wait and see how it pans out and if it gets many favourable reviews then I may purchase when it comes out 'on offer' i.e. a substantial drop from $70! I don't think I would ever consider paying a subscription for this type of software.

The term 'early access' suggests to me that N3V needs to do more testing on TRS19 but they need more beta testers in order to do so, those beta testers will be, albeit unwittingly, recruited by stealth and they will have to pay for the dubious privilege of doing so! Not for me, leave it to the fanboy stalwarts to do all that!

Don't forget, T:ANE is still being worked on and we can expect updates for this, according to TH :|

Rob.
Last edited by robd on Fri Aug 24, 2018 3:16 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: TRS19

Post by gds »

Wouldn't mind paying a subscription if it was paying for decent developers to work on new content that was included FOC and constantly expanding as well as regular updates to the base game.

Wouldn't want to pay subscription for a game with very little new content being developed, and that that is being done so by community members for free in their spare time.

All said, the new features for TRS19 look excellent, and I wish it every success. Hopefully it will attract a new breed of developers who create new modern content for it.
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Re: TRS19

Post by clam1952 »

You really are missing out Guys, this isn't a half baked N3V release, it worked well out of the box for the first beta and then unbelievably got better, which is a first for N3V.
There is no compulsion to buy a subscription, normal purchase is still available so it's carry on as normal, nothing wrong with waiting for the price to come down though although with Brexit and it's effect on exchange rates it may go up!
And can we not insult Beta Testers, I have put many hours into testing and submitting bug reports and criticism as have many of the other testers who call it as it is. Testers do not all blindly accept all the new features etc and will point out if something isn't right! Granted there are those that are only along for the ride, however they usually don't get to do it again if they have no useful input.

As for content, just had an email about changes to the Content Creation Program which apparently I joined? First I heard about it, however I had a look at the new extremely complicated TOC and briefly it appears the subscription is partly aimed at increasing the income of DLC creators...... No I haven't agreed to it so will get removed!
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Re: TRS19

Post by cyberdonblue »

clam1952 wrote:You really are missing out Guys, this isn't a half baked N3V release, it worked well out of the box for the first beta and then unbelievably got better, which is a first for N3V.
There is no compulsion to buy a subscription, normal purchase is still available so it's carry on as normal, nothing wrong with waiting for the price to come down though ...
Unfortunately Malc, many people still feel aggrieved over the debacle that was the T:ANE release. I was a beta tester for T:ANE - like your good self - and I remember both you and I saying on this forum that we had made our feelings clear to Tony about T:ANE - as had many of the other beta testers on the test site. We all felt that T:ANE was NOT READY for public release but N3V were adamant that they were going to open the gate and let it out. Well, now the chickens are coming home to roost. T:ANE STILL isn't fully roadworthy, although it's more stable than it has been since release and until it is finished many of us are not prepared to be taken for a mug again - whatever false promises Tony makes.
clam1952 wrote:...As for content, just had an email about changes to the Content Creation Program which apparently I joined? First I heard about it, however I had a look at the new extremely complicated TOC and briefly it appears the subscription is partly aimed at increasing the income of DLC creators...... No I haven't agreed to it so will get removed!
And just how willing will content creators continue to be when the UK Tax man or the American IRS decide that they want a cut of any of those little financial encouragements? However small they might be. Those low lifes want to know the second that you've gone over your personal allowance by so much as a penny. I know from experience on our wonderful privatised railways that it's a real pain in the parson's nose having to fill in those self assessment tax forms every year. Oops! Did I say forms? ha ha! Bloody books more like! You know these admin types. Why settle for one page to ask a simple question when 512 pages will make them look far more important ha ha!

I'm afraid Tony and his Marketing boys look to me to be in the process of killing the goose that laid the golden egg!

Very sad.

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Dave
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Re: TRS19

Post by VernM »

With all due respect to Malc's enthusiasm for the actual game, the sticking point with me is the pricing. I have no interest in signing up to a subscription which is going to cost around £12 a month or £122 a year with nothing left if I decide to cancel. As others have tried to get across on the N3V board but largely shouted down, this is not professional level software such as an Office package, it's entertainment software aka a game.

While the current UK£ to US$ doesn't help and is not any fault of N3V, a price tag of $70 or around £57 is still way too expensive for the standalone purchase of what, despite nicer graphics, looks to still be the same old Trainz in respect of everything else. TH pretty much sad as much a few months ago, when I asked a series of questions on the official board regarding possible operational and functional improvements. They were dismissed as a wish-list along with the suggestion perhaps there would need to be another Kickstarter for that to happen.

Our best hope is probably waiting for the Steam release as they are almost certain to insist on a more moderate price (hopefully no more than £40) at which point I would probably stump up. Very strong likelihood it would get discounted too, if not in the Xmas sale certainly at Easter next year. I can wait. Plenty to do in TANE and the other two sims, also by then any emergent bugs should be known to help with an informed decision.

Edit:
UK Tax man or the American IRS decide that they want a cut of any of those little financial encouragements? However small they might be.
Oh and they do find out. Many moons ago when I was putting my MSTS routes out on CD, I had an unexpected visit from the VAT people enquiring about my "business". As it happened they went away with a flea in their ear on discovering not only were the materials being bought VAT paid but the selling point (SW Reg) was adding and paying UK VAT to the price. Still it was a close call and not long after I ceased doing my own CD's handing off to UKTS instead. Even though not for profit I was next expecting a call from the income tax people looking for their cut off what they perceived I might be making.
Last edited by VernM on Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:54 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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