Index  •  FAQ  •  Search   •   Register | Login  

It is currently Sat Jun 24, 2017 4:35 pm


Last visit was: style=

Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 41 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
 Private Content Creator area 
Author Message
 Post subject: Private Content Creator area
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:29 pm 
Forum Veteran
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:02 am
Posts: 1102
Location: Coventry (West Midlands)
Trainz Version: T:ANE
Trainz Build: 80349
Author KUID: 630773
Split from "Railwaves MK3 Coaches" thread


I'm going to stick my 2 cents in for the last time - looking things at things "neutrally" from both angles.

Firstly, the Railwaves/Payware Provider vs Customer saga. If a customer has purchased from Railwaves (or any other Payware provider), and it is simply a "pay cash for product" transaction with no promise of unlimited support or downloads, then Railwaves have done nothing wrong as it was simply a "you pay this, for this" one-off transaction. However, if Railwaves, or any other payware provider clearly states that "if you buy this product, you also get lifetime downloads and support", then they have a legal obligation to provide that service as that was part of the "contract of sale". The Comet vs Railwaves comparison is different. Comet went bust. Railwaves ceased to trade voluntarily. I am a self-employed IT technician, and as part of my service, I often offer a guarantee or "offer of support for X period of time". If I were to go bust, I do not have to honour those services because, in the eyes of the law, i've gone bust -I do not exist. However, if I choose to stop trading, I still have to honour those guarantees and level of support agreed at the time of sale. That is the law - so if Railwaves voluntarily ceased trading (which they did), and they offered a lifetime download service or level of support (I don't know whether they did or didn't know now as I can't find my receipt amongst my emails), then they either have to provide that service - or offer a refund (or face the risk of a legal challenge via a small claims court).

Now, looking at things from Greeni's point of view - I agree about the demands and begging that seem to have arisen over the past few weeks. I don't see any harm in people making a genuine request for content if they're simply asking if something exists, and, if so, where they can get it from (and they use manners in the process). What is annoying are people that are blatantly trying it on - and i've noticed a few of those threads this week - mainly from newcomers to the forum. It's blatantly obvious that they've seen something in a screenshot, either on this forum or elsewhere, and they're trying to pressure the content creator into giving it to them - or continually keep asking about the same item, even though they've already been given an answer, to try to "pressure" the creator or speed him/her up into releasing it. I suspect this is what Greeni was referring to last week when we had a bit of a spat? The most annoying thing of all is people with no manners - and people who say "I want" or "I need". You don't need anything. If you've not had it before, you don't need it now. Content will appear as and when the content creators have finished it and want to release it. Don't force the issue. It's not going to kill you if you have to wait a while for it. It's also not going to bring a catastrophic end to your Trainz experience.

Mods - to perhaps try to bring some of this "begging" to an end, could there perhaps be some new systems implemented - such as the "content request" section being hidden to guests so that it doesn't encourage them to sign up just to beg for something? Also, perhaps a system could be introduced of, say, newbies needing a minimum of 10 posts before they can ask for requests? Perhaps also an infraction system too where they get "penalized" for continually begging, trying to "force" the release of content, or repetitively asking someone "how is this coming along?" or "Is that ready yet?" - despite being told in the past that it'll be ready when it's ready.

Perhaps also the creation of a special "content creators" section, which is hidden to the majority of the members, but visible to content creators/trusted helpers or re-skinners, because there have been occasions recently where content creators have got to the stage where they've got content 80% complete - but hit a bit of a brick wall and need help, advice or opinions from other content creators to get the other 20% complete. At this point, they're having to post their work on the forum, and then this is attracting the beggers to say "when will this be finished" or "will this be available in X livery?" before the item has even been finished - and therefore winding the content creator up. This happened quite recently in Domsarto's Class 158 thread where he posted up a picture to get some advice - but then umpteen people had already re-skinned it in their head before the item had even been finished - and that annoyed Domsarto. By having a "creators section", it will give content the creators of still being able to discuss their projects with other content creators, without the rest of the forum members (ie, the beggers) knowing what's "in the works". That then takes away the "Can I re-skin this into X livery" or "When will this be ready?" requests - which then prevents the content creators from being wound up.

There's a big difference between harmless, genuine, requests and blatant "sly/forceful" begging. Recently, there has been a big increase in blatant begging - and as Greeni said, its starting to affect the "morale" of the forum and its users.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Railwaves MK3 Coaches
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:43 pm 
SOTM Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 6:10 pm
Posts: 1400
Location: Droitwich Spa
Trainz Version: 06,09,12,T:ANE
Trainz Build: 61388
Author KUID: 485742
You have made some very valid points there Briggsy and I will assure you as a team, we are looking into possible changes into which the forum is set out and run.

In the meantime, if you have the any issues with a particular issue, feel free to use the report (Image) button to make us aware of issues.

_________________
Screenshot of the Month co-ordinator.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Railwaves MK3 Coaches
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:52 pm 
Past 100!

Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 4:58 pm
Posts: 242
Location: North Devon
Trainz Version: TS12
Trainz Build: 57898
Author KUID: 475970
Very well said, Briggsy. As someone who it still in the fairly early stages of content creation, I thankfully haven't suffered in the way of excessive requests or unreasonable demands, but I think the reason for that is that I have seen what drivel gets sent to people like Dave (nexusdj) and Dom (Domsarto) and as a result I don't tend to show much of what I have done until it's ready for release. The other major problem I find is that if you or I have a genuine query about the progress of somebody's work (such as Mark's Cornwall route or Dave's HST that's work in progress AFAIK), trying to ask that question without sounding like yet another one of the "I want it NOW" crew is nigh on impossible. And as you rightly say, if they have a problem and need to ask for advice, the one helpful post will be lost amongst a dozen posts from said "I want it NOW" crew. I think a private content creators section would be a very good idea to help those who will genuinely seek and offer advice overcome these problems.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Railwaves MK3 Coaches
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:38 pm 
Past 500!
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 6:33 pm
Posts: 561
Location: wigan, lancashire. WCML
Trainz Version: T:ane sp2
Trainz Build: 88364
Author KUID: 174088
well said briggsy, and the ideas are great too, would love to have a section were say groups could be made and have a few off limits to the amount and viewings from guests and newcomers, that could be moderated within the group too, so there are no leaks :lol: :lol:


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Railwaves MK3 Coaches
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:42 pm 
Past 250!
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:33 pm
Posts: 254
Trainz Version: T:ANE
Trainz Build: 76401
Author KUID: 49712
greeni wrote:
well said briggsy, and the ideas are great too, would love to have a section were say groups could be made and have a few off limits to the amount and viewings from guests and newcomers, that could be moderated within the group too, so there are no leaks :lol: :lol:

Would this group be open to those who's knowledge could be of use to it?

_________________
Image


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Railwaves MK3 Coaches
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:58 pm 
Past 500!
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 6:33 pm
Posts: 561
Location: wigan, lancashire. WCML
Trainz Version: T:ane sp2
Trainz Build: 88364
Author KUID: 174088
its would be set out as a project in the forum, and if you had any knowledge of what was being produced, you could enter via being added too via member in group. its just so we could get a group of people that know/knew of the project to lend a hand, and people that are set out to be beta testers would be involved...so there would not be any "when will it be ready" or "i want it now". it would be setup so people veiw project but cant add anything to it unless in the group or groups....that sort of thing..or something like that...


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Railwaves MK3 Coaches
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:32 pm 
Forum Veteran
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:02 am
Posts: 1102
Location: Coventry (West Midlands)
Trainz Version: T:ANE
Trainz Build: 80349
Author KUID: 630773
electra wrote:
Would this group be open to those who's knowledge could be of use to it?


I think the best idea would be like Greeni said, having select "groups" that can be selected to be involved with that particular project. Whether that is possible to do within this particular forum software (phpBB), i'm not so sure. I'm only familiar with Vbulletin forums as I used to run one a few years ago.

If not, then another option would be to perhaps have a "tiered" content developer section - with "Tier One" restricted strictly to creators and scripters only (with, for example, Greeni, TMZ06003, Warbo40, NexusDJ, etc being the sole members). That would be the place where content that is under development can be discussed between fellow developers and scripters for advice, help, etc. It would be a private section that only those select people can see.

Once that content is close to being finished and close to the 'skinning' stage, that thread containing that project could then perhaps be moved and "downgraded" to "Tier Two". "Tier Two" would be restricted to the above creators - plus trusted and good quality re-skinners (perhaps people like Matthewa, electra, etc). This Tier would be to discuss re-skin projects only - and again, only viewable to the select few that have been granted access to that section. That then gives the opportunity for creators to get ideas and research for re-skins, and find people who would to like to re-skin their new-content, whilst still keeping the project under wraps from everyone else.

Finally, once its got to the end of "Tier Two", it would go to "Tier Three".

"Tier Three" would perhaps have 3 or 4 select beta-testers to test the content after its been completed before its released. Again, only viewable to a select few.

By the end of "Tier Three", that should mean that the content has been created, had numerous re-skins, and been fully tested for bugs - and is then moved to the publicly viewable "released content" section. By the time its got there, it would mean that the project has been completed, and re-skinned, without any pressure, begging requests, or questions of "will you be releasing this in X livery?" - with only a select few (those that needed to know) knowing about, and contributing to, the project.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Railwaves MK3 Coaches
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:47 pm 
Past 500!
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:48 pm
Posts: 518
Location: That wee hilly place above England
Trainz Version: TS12
Trainz Build: 61388
Author KUID: 622162
That sounds like a good idea, but what if some members (e.g. me) would like to try their hand at content creation? We wouldn't be allowed in "tier 1" so would we have to put up with the "Gimme pigs" for a while until we're granted access? i would suggest that we make our first content "as it is now" in the routes/rolling stock/scenery section and then we could perhaps be evaluated on that content and based on that be allowed into the selected members section.

_________________
Please, call me Alex.
Formerly known as afleming97


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Railwaves MK3 Coaches
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:50 pm 
Past 500!
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 6:33 pm
Posts: 561
Location: wigan, lancashire. WCML
Trainz Version: T:ane sp2
Trainz Build: 88364
Author KUID: 174088
there could be a tutorial group set up to learn basic's in gmax or blender!!, say building a simple sign, buildings then onto wagons.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Railwaves MK3 Coaches
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:51 pm 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:57 pm
Posts: 842
Location: Nr Penryn, Cornwall
Trainz Version: TS2010
Trainz Build: 44088
Author KUID: 179051
I like your idea of a private section for content creators Briggsy, I think the only way to limit the area to certain users is if I add them manually to the forum permissions in the Admin Panel, as you can't set per rank permissions with phpbb only per forum and group, but moving people to a different group would be quite a long process.

I think the tier system sounds a bit complicated, with having access to the tier by certain content creators. I think the best way would just be to have a section in which all the content creators added can post, and possibly have a few sub forums to separate different categories of discussion.

_________________
Image

My Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/66901380@N04/


Online
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Railwaves MK3 Coaches
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:57 pm 
Forum Veteran

Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 4:16 pm
Posts: 1115
Location: Gnosall, Staffordshire
Trainz Version: TANE
Trainz Build: 84356
Author KUID: 425700
Looking at this as a relatively new creator, I've not had any problems other than the occasional polite question, understandable as I've been working on my route and assets for just over 4 years now, there isn't such a demand for must have narrow gauge items.

From a Trainz user point of view, comparing it to railway modelling, the amount of stuff that is available is enormous, I can't honestly see why it is such a big problem for some people to wait until it's done or live without it. Some of the posts on Skipper1945's thread on the N3V forums are pretty demanding, he must have a heck of a lot of patience.

Similar problem when a creator announces whatever has been uploaded to the DLS and immediately you get where is it, I can't find it, the dependencies are missing when all they had to do is wait a day or two for it and all the bits to appear.

Seems to be a sign of the times that more and more people expect everything yesterday for free.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Railwaves MK3 Coaches
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:08 pm 
Forum Veteran
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:02 am
Posts: 1102
Location: Coventry (West Midlands)
Trainz Version: T:ANE
Trainz Build: 80349
Author KUID: 630773
afleming97 wrote:
That sounds like a good idea, but what if some members (e.g. me) would like to try their hand at content creation? We wouldn't be allowed in "tier 1" so would we have to put up with the "Gimme pigs" for a while until we're granted access? i would suggest that we make our first content "as it is now" in the routes/rolling stock/scenery section and then we could perhaps be evaluated on that content and based on that be allowed into the selected members section.


It doesn't need to be an overly complicated system. My idea was, basically, if there's a private content creators section, realistically, the only people that need to be in it, are creators that can help each other. For example, take Greeni's Class 56 thread. At the moment, its mainly Greeni, TMZ06003 and Warbo40 involved in the actual creating discussion, because, in reality, they're the only creators and they know their stuff and can share advice. A lot of the other replies in that thread are the types we're talking about (and trying to get rid of) - the "when will this be released?" and "will this be available in X livery?" questions. If that thread was in a private section, it would simply be Greeni, TMZ06003 and Warbo40 talking between themselves - without the annoying questions from other members in-between.

In reality, the likes of you and I are learning content creation - so we can't help them with any tips or advice - so therefore, it's pointless us needing to be involved in the private content request section - whereas you can still post your work on the public forums, and people can still help you if they wish. If the infraction system was to be introduced too, then even if your work is in the public section, if members beg or keep pestering you, they would get "penalized" under the infraction system and be suspended/banned for X period of time if, for example, they got "2 strikes".

If the day were to come when your work is being noticed as really good quality, and your skills and advice can match other content creators, then you'd simply be "promoted" into the group of people that are allowed to take part in the "content creation" section.

Common sense would decide who's in the "content creation" section really. It would be quite obvious who would be an asset to that section and who wouldn't, so therefore, that section would look after itself.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Railwaves MK3 Coaches
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:18 pm 
Past 500!
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:48 pm
Posts: 518
Location: That wee hilly place above England
Trainz Version: TS12
Trainz Build: 61388
Author KUID: 622162
Ok, I can see where you're coming from with that. I think it's a very good idea and I'd be happy with waiting and then being "promoted" if/ when my contributions to trains increase in quality.

_________________
Please, call me Alex.
Formerly known as afleming97


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Railwaves MK3 Coaches
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:25 pm 
Forum Veteran
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:02 am
Posts: 1102
Location: Coventry (West Midlands)
Trainz Version: T:ANE
Trainz Build: 80349
Author KUID: 630773
clam1952 wrote:
Looking at this as a relatively new creator, I've not had any problems other than the occasional polite question


Apart from my Royal Mail coach re-skins, I haven't done anything either - so i'd not had the numerous questions until last week. Not sure what triggered it, but I had quite a few PM's on the Auran forum asking where the missing BRUTE dependency was, will I be doing the first version of the Royal Mail livery, can I create some of the other Royal Mail coaches that aren't available (the gangwayed GUV's, PCV, etc). I rarely use the Auran forum as its a bit too "busy" with lots of irrelevant stuff that doesn't interest me (overseas content and posters, steam era, etc). Other than on this forum, I haven't made them "public knowledge" - so I can only assume that they've found them on the DLS and looked up my username on the Auran forums to PM me, or someone has used them in a screenshot, and said who re-skinned them, etc.

I generally don't mind it. I was kind of expecting it the day I released them - I think once you start getting involved in releasing content, you've then opened yourself up to the "world of 20 questions". What I did mind was the impoliteness/attitude. One guy simply didn't understand that I only re-skinned the coaches - and didn't create them in Gmax from scratch. He asked me to modify something on the coaches (the gangways I think it was) - to which I told him that I couldn't. He got quite arsey about it and didn't believe me. Needless to say, he was put firmly in his place then. I think the vast majority of Trainz users aren't very computer-minded, and I think they're under the impression that if they see your name linked to something, then you did the whole job from scratch - and then don't like it if they think you're lying or trying to prove them wrong. I think they're under the impression that if you can re-skin, then you can Gmax too. Ermmmm no!

I can handle requests - but I cannot tolerate bad manners. There's simply no excuse for it - it should come naturally to people. "I want" and "I need" immediately brings out my stubborn side and makes deliberately want to avoid helping them.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Railwaves MK3 Coaches
PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:13 am 
Forum Veteran

Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 4:16 pm
Posts: 1115
Location: Gnosall, Staffordshire
Trainz Version: TANE
Trainz Build: 84356
Author KUID: 425700
Actually on reflection its just occurred to me, I nearly forgot, when I released all my WHR Coaches, wagons and some NG locos on the DLS I was somewhat bothered by requests for backdating to 2006 2004 and such like which took me some time to sort out as it totalled about 80 items including bogies engine specs etc. I could have done without the problem, as after dumping all the backdated stuff on Mediafire, I then had to reissue most of the stuff I'd uploaded to the DLS as kuid2's as the backdated versions had the same kuids, it did teach me two things though, 1. I'm not backdating anything again, especially as with all the stuff I've built I'm up to around 600 items of custom content and 2. Watch what I'm doing with kuids! Actually a third thing, don't allow an unknown person to reskin a Manning Wardle and put it on the DLS as it appeared with a flipping face..............

N3V used to have a separate forum for Creators and such that wasn't open to all, I found extremely useful but they shut it. I learn a heck of a lot by reading what other creators are posting.


Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 41 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next


 Who is online 

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

 
Index  |  FAQ  |  Search

phpBB skin developed by: John Olson
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group