Midland Main Line Derby to Manchester

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PFX
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Re: Midland Main Line Derby to Manchester

Post by PFX »

Dave,

What crossing gates are you using? I didn't realise anyone had made any that work with the ATLS system.

Cheers,
Innis
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Re: Midland Main Line Derby to Manchester

Post by cyberdonblue »

Hi Innis,

Your post just shows how ignorant I really am then, doesn't it? :lol: Maybe I'm getting all the different triggers and stuff mixed up. I don't know. I haven't messed with gates and crossings much - my Aylesbury stuff only has a couple of crossings and they're barriers. I know I've seen working gates before on a few routes so I just assumed it was all ATLS type stuff ("Assumption is the mother of all f*** ups!" As an ex-railwayman you would have thought that I would have remembered that saying, wouldn't you?) I just chose a crossing at random and I know absolutely nothing about it or its capabilities. It's "GWR Double Track Level Crossing" kuid2:46219:24075:1 by jonny211. Are you saying that I need to discard it and find another one or is there another method of operating things? (There must be, surely.)

Cheers

Dave
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Re: Midland Main Line Derby to Manchester

Post by clam1952 »

Those Crossings work automatically being kind mocrossing
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Re: Midland Main Line Derby to Manchester

Post by cyberdonblue »

Do I still have to place triggers, Malc ?

Cheers

Dave
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Re: Midland Main Line Derby to Manchester

Post by Mightyena »

I don't think so. The Trainz standard crossings just deploy automatically, although I prefer using ATLS crossings as the default ones can cut it a bit fine closing in time if the line speed is high
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Re: Midland Main Line Derby to Manchester

Post by clam1952 »

cyberdonblue wrote:Do I still have to place triggers, Malc ?

Cheers

Dave

No, Triggers are not required.
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Re: Midland Main Line Derby to Manchester

Post by PFX »

cyberdonblue wrote:Hi Innis,

Your post just shows how ignorant I really am then, doesn't it? :lol: Maybe I'm getting all the different triggers and stuff mixed up. I don't know. I haven't messed with gates and crossings much - my Aylesbury stuff only has a couple of crossings and they're barriers. I know I've seen working gates before on a few routes so I just assumed it was all ATLS type stuff ("Assumption is the mother of all f*** ups!" As an ex-railwayman you would have thought that I would have remembered that saying, wouldn't you?) I just chose a crossing at random and I know absolutely nothing about it or its capabilities. It's "GWR Double Track Level Crossing" kuid2:46219:24075:1 by jonny211. Are you saying that I need to discard it and find another one or is there another method of operating things? (There must be, surely.)

Cheers

Dave
Haha. I'm saying nothing!

It's up to yourself if you use an existing crossing or not. Personally I use the ATLS barriers as I can set them up for prototypical closing times. The automatic assets, such as the one you're using, tend not to close until a train is almost on top of it. Saying that, I can't say I've ever seen gated crossing assets that work with the ATLS triggers though I stand to be corrected. Someone else created an alternative crossing trigger system and I think that may have gated crossings. Unfortunately, damned if I can remember who it was.
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Re: Midland Main Line Derby to Manchester

Post by cyberdonblue »

Thanks everybody for your advice and assistance. Yet again I've learnt something new about Trainz (and showed my true ignorance to one and all :lol: ) Innis, I have seen what you are referring to somewhere too. Like you, however, I can't remember where. I seem to remember thinking that that system was a bit over complicated for a thicko like me though, but then, I was being a bit flippant at the time because I hadn't got any great interest in anything other than Boat's run of the mill ATLS stuff.

Anyway, to lighten things up a bit, here are a few pictures of WIP. The first picture is of how I started out with the horrifyingly compact layout at Buxton. It looks quite different now, as you can see from the second WIP picture.

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Buxton of old is an extremely compact area to try and recreate. This was about my third attempt and it still wasn't right.


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Many thanks to Dave (nexusdj) and Malc (clam1952) for the excellent maps that have helped to get things as far as this. Those who know the area - or the historic layout - will see that there is still a certain amount of artistic licence in operation here (the two main lines branching off at the bottom right for a start) in order to enable an efficient through route (which there never really was.) In reality, there was only ever a single track connection to the LNWR shed up until around 1910/1912 when a single track connection was added to allow through trains - although a small shunt would still have been required to make this possible. There is still much to be added here too (sidings, loco shed, maintenance shed etc, etc.) but the complexity of it all has meant that I felt like I needed a break from it and so I've been dabbling in other areas, as you'll see from the other pictures.

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Canals anybody? They're more of a nightmare than railways, believe me. Everything has to be level for water and fighting the terrain can cause all kinds of problems. Mind you, fighting the terrain is a big challenge throughout this route. Trying to fit all the different height changes together with buildings and natural features is almost an impossibility.

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And talking of impossiblities, we arrive at Whaley Bridge station. There are a set of steps coming down from the pub (the building shown here) to the main road at the forefront of the picture in the real World. This has proved impossible (for me anyway) to reproduce in any form so once again artistic licence has had to step in.

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Some of the many height variations in the terrain can be seen here. The land on the left of the picture is a large rising hil. In the middle, the pub and the station are on an embankment. The station, however, is about 20 feet higher than the pub. Both of these are accessed from a road some 25 feet below. Next to that, on the right hand side of the picture - some 20 or 30 feet down again - is the canal and all of its associated activities. The whole thing looks quite straight-forward, doesn't it? I promise you, it is anything but when you come to tackle it.

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Thankfully, Whaley Bridge station itself is on fairly level ground - though the terrain drops away sharply both sides by the orange marker in the middle of the picture. There are also one or two more buildings that will need to be squeezed in uncomfortably close that may well cause me some fun and games in the near future. Fingers crossed.



Cheers all. And thank you for all of your help.

Dave
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Re: Midland Main Line Derby to Manchester

Post by clam1952 »

saxham_market did a couple of crossings which required a controller, never used them so not sure what or how they worked.

Looking extremely good so far Dave, fitting in buildings close to the track, great fun or nightmare depending on how you look at it...... ;)

Malc
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Re: Midland Main Line Derby to Manchester

Post by cyberdonblue »

:lol: Nightmare most of the time. Everything moves when you don't want it to. You've probably had more experience of that than most, Malc, with your Ffestiniog work.

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Dave
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Re: Midland Main Line Derby to Manchester

Post by Nexusdj »

To get around that problem I use additional layers on the routes I build , I usually have the main layer , A fixed scenery layer ,A catenary layer and finally a layer if I use basemaps . The beauty of it is that it locks various items in place so that you can work around them without fear of accidentally moving or deleting them .
I can also switch off the catenary layer and have a route which is all diesel / steam instead .

The only downside is you have to remember to keep switching between layers and locking the ones you don't want to mess with , That can be frustrating when you forget !!
You also have to be careful with layers as you can easily destroy your hard work by deleting a layer by mistake !!

Also keep any scenery away from the session layer unless its additional to a specific session , I've read plenty of posts on the Auran forum where days or weeks of scenery work has gone missing as they hadn't realised they where building in the session layer !

***Should a user end up in that situation then they need to merge the session layer with the route layer and then save the route***

Using layers on the Trainz wiki : http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/inde ... Use_Layers
High visibility pixels must be worn when on or about the line !!
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Re: Midland Main Line Derby to Manchester

Post by clam1952 »

Yes I'm a great believer in layers, I even put Trees on a layer when I'm route building. Using Transdem 3d tiles in addition to having the map on the terrain, the 3d tiles are at a higher resolution so I can switch them in and out when I need better detail for the important bits. Switching all the layers off makes it dead easy to see any missing Ground Textures as well, you can texture with all layers off.
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Re: Midland Main Line Derby to Manchester

Post by Dean_Forest »

Adrian19 has created a number of ATLS crossing gates.

kuid:190624:600051/61/71/72/73/74
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Re: Midland Main Line Derby to Manchester

Post by cyberdonblue »

Dean_Forest wrote:Adrian19 has created a number of ATLS crossing gates.

kuid:190624:600051/61/71/72/73/74
Thanks Dean. I'll have a look at them.

Wise words indeed Dave and Malc but I have a head like a sieve and gave up switching between the layers simply because I would get so engrossed in what I was doing I would constantly forget to switch back again. Strangely, I started working this morning and my entire 3D tiles layer has vanished. It's as if it never existed. The route itself is fine but T:ANE says the Layer is empty. Nothing there. I had a search around to no avail and then proceeded to "bless" T:ANE with every "holy" word I could think of beginning with F - and a few more besides. I have decided not to give into these gremlins and have pressed on today regardless. Maybe my tiles will magically reappear, who knows? (as if :lol: ) I've been working hand in hand with Google Earth ever since but the terrain height differences are often + or - 30 feet and distances can vary as much as a 100 yards from the TransDEM information. Trial and error from now on, I'm afraid - and more than a touch of "artistic licence", I shouldn't wonder. :roll:

Cheers

Dave
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Re: Midland Main Line Derby to Manchester

Post by cyberdonblue »

:D

A few more pictures as we move along. I'm hoping to pursue all three options for this route (a hell of a lot of work, I know) but as all three approaches to Manchester from the Millers Dale and Buxton areas run more or less parallel to each other (and over and under each other a couple of times too) I thought, "Why not?" For a small city though, Manchester has got a hell of a lot of railway.

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The deep gorge (on the left), known as The Torrs, is 70 feet deep allegedly. Note, I've even put the branch line to Hayfield back in as well. It's not very long so why not?

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The Midland main line is the one that turns away to the right here. Only 20 mph at this point. The branch line is the one going straight on and becomes a single line not long after leaving the tunnel at the other end.

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There are two rivers that meet up in this area and they have cut a deep ravine into the gravel rock over the years. There are some spectacular waterfalls here too but sadly T:ANE doesn't have the capabilities to include them in anything other than a token attempt.

If anybody knows of a decent representation of a waterfall, I'd be very interested to hear about it.

Many thanks

Cheers

Dave
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