Index  •  FAQ  •  Search   •   Register | Login  

It is currently Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:35 pm


Last visit was: style=

Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 42 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
 Who's rail??? 
Author Message
 Post subject: Who's rail???
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:13 pm 
Past 500!
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 6:27 pm
Posts: 633
Location: Lincoln
Trainz Version: Tane
Trainz Build: 84204
Author KUID: 222042
'British Rail' is officially DEAD ..................

........... hello to 'Euro Rail', we hope your countries appreciate all it's cheap travel, paid for by exorbitant profits ripped from British taxpayers. :x

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/fu ... se-9604255

_________________
Tane SP1 build 82718 + SnC & Duchess


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Who's rail???
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:37 am 
Past 250!
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:39 pm
Posts: 262
Trainz Version: TS12 + S&C
Trainz Build: 0
Author KUID: 0
Exorbitant profits? You realise that when you take the costs of preparing a bid into account, margins are minimal don't you?


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Who's rail???
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:33 pm 
Past 500!
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 6:27 pm
Posts: 633
Location: Lincoln
Trainz Version: Tane
Trainz Build: 84204
Author KUID: 222042
If there wasn't a reasonable amount of profit to be made, then foreign governments wouldn't be interested in running our railways, especially Italy, considering their financial problems at the moment.

_________________
Tane SP1 build 82718 + SnC & Duchess


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Who's rail???
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:29 pm 
Forum Veteran
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:12 pm
Posts: 1239
Trainz Version: T:ANE
Trainz Build: 78667
Author KUID: 0
Can't remember if this has been posted here or not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvagsSOlAy4

_________________
Meetings. None of us is dumb as all of us.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Who's rail???
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:20 pm 
Past 500!
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 6:27 pm
Posts: 633
Location: Lincoln
Trainz Version: Tane
Trainz Build: 84204
Author KUID: 222042
Thank you PFX, that was exactly my point, it would now make me happy if a lot of people would do as I am doing, I have vowed never to travel on any railway in this country (preserved lines excepted), until our railways are brought back into British ownership.

The government made a profit whilst it was running the ECML, so why can we not run our own railways.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... -privatise

_________________
Tane SP1 build 82718 + SnC & Duchess


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Who's rail???
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:57 pm 
Past 250!
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:39 pm
Posts: 262
Trainz Version: TS12 + S&C
Trainz Build: 0
Author KUID: 0
blackwatch13 wrote:
If there wasn't a reasonable amount of profit to be made, then foreign governments wouldn't be interested in running our railways, especially Italy, considering their financial problems at the moment.

If it was such a money-spinner then you would have a variety of multinationals buying their way into the market. They are conspicuous by their absence.

It's reckoned that Trenitalia were after Nat Ex's management. They reckon that the Italian Government and the EU want to open up the Italian rail market. If that is the case, they need the experienced bidding teams.

blackwatch13 wrote:
The government made a profit whilst it was running the ECML, so why can we not run our own railways.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... -privatise

The government-operated DOR deferred major work on the rolling stock to make ends meet. Overhaul deadlines were pushed as far as possible.

blackwatch13 wrote:
I have vowed never to travel on any railway in this country (preserved lines excepted), until our railways are brought back into British ownership.
So do you get around? Do you walk or do you drive or take a bus? If you drive do you drive a Vauxhall (American), Land Rover (Indian), Mini (German), MG (Chinese), Jaguar (Indian)? Or is the bus you might otherwise take owned by Arriva (German)?

You say you except preserved railways, where do the Weardale Railway and the Dartmoor Railway stand here? Both are owned by an American company.

There is constant whinging about British companies being owned by foreigners, no one ever mentions all of the overseas operations of National Express, FirstGroup, Stagecoach, Virgin Group and many others outside of rail transport.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Who's rail???
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:03 pm 
Past 500!
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 6:27 pm
Posts: 633
Location: Lincoln
Trainz Version: Tane
Trainz Build: 84204
Author KUID: 222042
Dean_Forest wrote:
Do you walk or do you drive or take a bus? If you drive do you drive a Vauxhall (American), Land Rover (Indian), Mini (German), MG (Chinese), Jaguar (Indian)? Or is the bus you might otherwise take owned by Arriva (German)?

You say you except preserved railways, where do the Weardale Railway and the Dartmoor Railway stand here? Both are owned by an American company.

There is constant whinging about British companies being owned by foreigners, no one ever mentions all of the overseas operations of National Express, FirstGroup, Stagecoach, Virgin Group and many others outside of rail transport.


I don't drive, I don't use buses, I have my trusty bicycle & a small trailer which gets me & my luggage where I need to go.

As for preserved railways in this country, I don't give a rat's a**e who owns them (you only gave 2 examples, are they the only foreign owned ones? ), anyone preserving BRITISH made loco's deserves support, as we don't make our own anymore. The current load of North American loco's & Japanese, Chinese & European plastic crap just don't have the same attraction.

I note that when you say "there's no profit", you haven't felt the need to 'poo poo' this :- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvagsSOlAy4
...... or does that not suit your agenda?

_________________
Tane SP1 build 82718 + SnC & Duchess


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Who's rail???
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:04 pm 
Past 250!
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:39 pm
Posts: 262
Trainz Version: TS12 + S&C
Trainz Build: 0
Author KUID: 0
Do you really think that £3m (the sum quoted in the video for GA) is a large sum of money? Especially after the costs of bidding are included.

Franchise operators tend to make a profit of around 2% of turnover. Compare to a supermarket which will make around 4% or Apple who make 40%. 2% is incredibly marginal in the business world.

Not all the locos operating on preserved lines are British. If you turn up and find 56006 running trains, do you turn around and go home on the basis that it was built in Romania? Steam-wise, there are a number of railways operating American or Eastern European-built locos. Doesn't mean they aren't good locos.

Oh, by the way those American locos you so despise probably saved the British railfreight industry. Class 66's last more than twice as long between overhauls as their predecessors did and each overhaul costs half as much. While class 47s were failing twice a month, class 66s only fail twice a year.

Incidentally though, the Spanish-made class 68s are quite rateable ;)


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Who's rail???
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:45 am 
Forum Veteran
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:41 pm
Posts: 1056
Location: West Midlands
Trainz Version: 2006 2012 T:ANE SP2
Trainz Build: 90945
Author KUID: 214658
Dean_Forest wrote:
Oh, by the way those American locos you so despise probably saved the British railfreight industry. Class 66's last more than twice as long between overhauls as their predecessors did and each overhaul costs half as much. While class 47s were failing twice a month, class 66s only fail twice a year.;)

Are you seriously trying to compare the maintenance records of a brand new loco and a 50 plus year old one? That's like trying to compare an old Austin Mini with BMW's latest version. There's no similarity whatsoever other than they do the same job.

Furthermore, that Yanky crap didn't save the British Freight industry at all. It was the bosses of that industry that decided to buy that rubbish because, like many before them, they were blinded by all the American bullshit that flows so freely from that nation. Add to that the fact that all the British manufacturing capability had been stolen and sold off (Bombadier, is one example of who benefitted - Canadian, not British like they try to pretend when the contracts are handed out)

The DVT's on the Euston road had (and still have got where they are in use) stupid sounding twin tone high tones on their warning horns because some stupid twat of a BR boss decided that he liked the sound of American locos horns so much we should have them here - I kid you not. However, he was defeated by the rules over here. We can't have Yanky horns here because we have to have seperate high and low tones on our locos in Britain by law - hence the abortion we ended up with on the DVT's.

Far too many people in this country are brainwashed by all things American. We are virtually just another American state these days. British people are even starting to talk like Yanks. Films are called "Movies" now. Really? Well, when we finally escape the clutches of the Euro Powermad Moguls then maybe this country will go back to manufacturing its own stuff again. The Eurocrats swallowed our car industry, steel industry and pretty much our entire manufacturing industry. Now maybe we can rebuild some of it and shove that Yanky crap where it belongs. In the bin - yes, I said bin NOT TRASH!!!

BR had the finest facilities in the World before it was hived off in the name of privatisation. They could have manufactured the finest locos 7 days a week but they were being held in a stranglehold by successive governments for decades which prevented them from doing so. Maybe we can find people with those skills again and put the world to shame with our abilities once more.

Oh and, as someone who has experience of modern American crap versus the old BR locos, I'll take the old BR locos every time thank you.

Dave ;)


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Who's rail???
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:36 pm 
Past 500!
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 6:27 pm
Posts: 633
Location: Lincoln
Trainz Version: Tane
Trainz Build: 84204
Author KUID: 222042
Dean_Forest wrote:
Incidentally though, the Spanish-made class 68s are quite rateable ;)


They'll be very highly rateable for import duty by Customs once we're out of the EU. :lol:

_________________
Tane SP1 build 82718 + SnC & Duchess


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Who's rail???
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:06 am 
Past 750!
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:56 am
Posts: 844
Location: Aldershot
Trainz Version: 2012 TANE
Trainz Build: 61297
Author KUID: 393563
Dean_Forest wrote:
The government-operated DOR deferred major work on the rolling stock to make ends meet. Overhaul deadlines were pushed as far as possible.


In regards to DOR, doesn't basic economics suggest that state owned railways are cheaper to run, the privatised network recieves vastly more than what BR ever did and that managed to achieve some amazing feats of engineering despite being run on a shoestring. Just think what the railways would be capable of, if BR was still around and recieving the level of investment the privatised railways are recieving.

The fact of the matter, ensuring private investors are paid, means that the public money escapes down a private hole, never to return, remaining stashed in hedge funds, further driving up the subsidies required. etc etc

_________________
Image
http://berkshiretrainz.webs.com/

Great Bolshy Yarblockos!


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Who's rail???
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:59 am 
Past 250!
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:39 pm
Posts: 262
Trainz Version: TS12 + S&C
Trainz Build: 0
Author KUID: 0
cyberdonblue wrote:
Dean_Forest wrote:
Oh, by the way those American locos you so despise probably saved the British railfreight industry. Class 66's last more than twice as long between overhauls as their predecessors did and each overhaul costs half as much. While class 47s were failing twice a month, class 66s only fail twice a year.;)

Are you seriously trying to compare the maintenance records of a brand new loco and a 50 plus year old one? That's like trying to compare an old Austin Mini with BMW's latest version. There's no similarity whatsoever other than they do the same job.

It might be unfair to compare them, but find me a British-built loco with an availability like a 66. In fact, to make a 100% fair comparison can anyone access comparative records of 59s and 60s? They were designed for the same job and built at the same sort of time and so would make for a fairer test.

Remember that Foster Yeoman ordered the 59s because the 56s were unreliable. BR withdrew from the tender because they couldn't supply something reliable enough for Foster Yeoman's requirements.

For the record, I prefer the Austin Mini over the BMW product in the same way that I prefer 37 haulage over 66. If you are running a business though, you can't base your decisions on nostalgia alone, you have to take a sober view of what is best for the company.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Who's rail???
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:08 am 
Past 250!
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:39 pm
Posts: 262
Trainz Version: TS12 + S&C
Trainz Build: 0
Author KUID: 0
klambert wrote:
Dean_Forest wrote:
The government-operated DOR deferred major work on the rolling stock to make ends meet. Overhaul deadlines were pushed as far as possible.


In regards to DOR, doesn't basic economics suggest that state owned railways are cheaper to run, the privatised network recieves vastly more than what BR ever did and that managed to achieve some amazing feats of engineering despite being run on a shoestring. Just think what the railways would be capable of, if BR was still around and recieving the level of investment the privatised railways are recieving.

The fact of the matter, ensuring private investors are paid, means that the public money escapes down a private hole, never to return, remaining stashed in hedge funds, further driving up the subsidies required. etc etc

In theory, yes the public sector has one less cost (that 2% mentioned earlier). In practice, management attitudes become lazy and they become dependent on subsidy rather than innovate to perform better. This was shown in North Wales where local authorities subsidised certain services but BR just took the money and ran the service with no thought for how the service would best serve the area (and therefore be able to wean itself off subsidy before the LA had the inevitable funding shortfall).

Cast your mind back and you will see that BR did get that level of investment. It was called the Modernisation Plan. The money was squandered in a way that nationalised industries are very good at. It took decades for the Treasury to be persuaded to provide the railways with that sort of capital investment again.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Who's rail???
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:14 am 
Forum Veteran
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:41 pm
Posts: 1056
Location: West Midlands
Trainz Version: 2006 2012 T:ANE SP2
Trainz Build: 90945
Author KUID: 214658
I don't think the death of the Modernisation Plan was totally BR's fault

http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/docsum ... p?docID=23

Quote:
This report, known as the 'modernisation plan' was commissioned as part of an attempt to stem the losses being incurred by BR due to competition from road and air traffic. Among the recommendations taken up were massive spending - £1.2bn - on the replacement of all steam traction with diesel and electric, and construction of vast marshalling yards using automated shunting.

The failure of the plan was that nothing was done to address pre-war working practises, or the 'common carrier' requirements which meant road haulage firms could cherry-pick the lucrative freight traffic and leave BR with the rest. The diesel traction was poorly procured, with some types scrapped only 10 years after their introduction.

The failure of the plan led directly to the Beeching reports and closures 10 years later, and was seen by government as a squandering of a once-in-a-generation spending plan; the failure soured the relationship between railway and government for decades after.

This document was published on 1st December 1954 by British Transport Commission.

The very first paragraph above tells you in what it DOESN'T say just how far our railways had been allowed to slip. Don't forget, the railways weren't nationalised until 1947 so what sort of money were the private companies investing up till then? Very little it would seem - as now. The Government of the day had no choice but to invest massively or watch the railways disintegrate before their very eyes because of years of neglect and no investment. After the experiences of World War 2 they knew how essential railways were for the shipment of large amounts of goods and supplies. The massive modernisation required was going to be expensive which ever way you looked at it.

Add to that the "dishonesty" of Marple and Beeching in assisting the Road Haulage firms and the road lobby to defeat the railways and BR were on a loser straight away. Then, of course, there was the government's ability to use the press to blame the unions for every failing along the way and a familiar pattern of anti-working man began to emerge in an attempt to force people down into the gutter again like the in Victorian days (repeated again in 1974 [Ted Heath] and the 1980's [by Thatcher]) and try to run everything on a shoestring with maximum profits for the wealthy.

Politics has much to answer for, hence the half soaked attitude of many today.

Dave


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Who's rail???
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:22 am 
Past 250!
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:39 pm
Posts: 262
Trainz Version: TS12 + S&C
Trainz Build: 0
Author KUID: 0
In both World Wars, the railways were promised reparations after the war. They saw little of what was promised. Trying to hold together what was left after wartime shortages of materials and manpower was difficult enough, let alone renewing and upgrading when you haven't received the funds allocated and the government is hellbent on nationalising you.


Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 42 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next


 Who is online 

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

 
Index  |  FAQ  |  Search

phpBB skin developed by: John Olson
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group