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 Teething problems [hopefully] 
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 Post subject: Teething problems [hopefully]
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:53 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 7:30 pm
Posts: 44
Location: Nottingham
Trainz Version: TS2010
Trainz Build: 49933
Author KUID: 226741
OK where to start in an apparent list of - this thing just doesn't work.

Running AI trains in a session
I set up 6 trains to leave 6 adjacent platforms at 5 minute intervals, go via a local trackpoint [to get them all on the down line], go to a location, run round the train and come back to where they started from and end.
1) the first train won't set off unless I take control.
2) all the other trains go to the via trackpoint and stop, requiring me to take control to get them moving
3) the trains derail when they find a trailing points set whose default setting is incorrect.
4) I stay with a train and set the points ahead of it, it still derails across one set of points.

Unrelated, I've paid for a ticket for Planet Auran to download some items, but I put items in my cart and press 'download all' and I might as well be shouting at the screen for all the effect it has.

Any explanations, correction appreciated. I understand i'm probably missing the obvious, but it isn't obvious to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Teething problems [hopefully]
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:53 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:24 pm
Posts: 35
Trainz Version: TS12
Trainz Build: 0
Author KUID: 0
Hi Mike,

I can't profess to know exactly what the issues with the AI are, because these issues are almost always situational.

Firstly, check the connection of track at points - if you're driving it manually and it still derails, you have a track fault. Your junction isn't actually connected. The only way to fix this is to edit it in Surveyor. (Pretty much every developer has done this at some point!). Also, ensure you have a lever associated with that set of points. Use of 'Show Messages' from the menu may reveal that the junction has no lever. Missing a lever or a unconnected bit of track is the most likely cause.

If you can safely drive the train over the points, this is more likely to be an AI issue...

Firstly, make sure that the track you're working with is signalled. Signals can take the form of coloured lights, semaphore signals, buffer stops (which behave as a red light, always) or invisible signals (I wouldn't recommend these, except in very rare circumstances). Look at the aspect these signals show - if the signal is red (or any other aspect) you can mouse over the signal and it'll explain why. Common issues are things like "track ahead is unsignalled", "another train is occupying the line", "Track direction marker is against you" etc.

If the 'track ahead is unsignalled', you'll get a red light and the driver won't start. This can either be a track fault (explained above), or a lack of signals beyond the junction. Make sure that you have signals facing the correct way and check what messages they show when you mouse-over them.

If 'another train is occupying the line', disable all AIs and re-initiate the first one. The same is true for 'another AI has control of the junction/path'. Basically, 2 AIs are fighting for rights to the line, stopping them may help you identify which the rogue one is.

If 'a track direction marker is against you' you'll either need to delete or rotate it to suit the situation. Travelling against a track direction (yellow) marker will always force signals to be red, so even on a traditional up-and-down layout, you don't necessarily want to disable bi-directional running.

If you've got signals all showing a proceed (not red) aspect when the points are manually set, then you have a proper AI issue! Either another train is controlling the points causing a derailment (look for the yellow lock symbol above the points). Also, 'show messages' from the menu, this will show output if the driver is having issues - it's not always helpful, but certainly worth it if the above hasn't solved it.

At MEGA-complex junctions, you may find that AIs freak-out a little. In TANE, there is a solution which has rolled-out as standard, Interlocking Towers. In pre-TANE editions, PathRule can be equally as effective and can be downloaded. You will need to take time, but you can set a path from the very start to the very end of your pointwork, guaranteeing that the train has a clear route. Then, use the Autodrive function to get through the junctions. This should be an absolute last resort and your junction will need to be EXTREMELY complicated to make it a worthwhile enterprise.

It's best to ask unrelated questions as a different one, rather than adding it to this one. If possible, use Content Manager to do the downloading, rather than the Auran store's "Download All". Just be sure that you're not trying to download content which has a build number which is too high. You can read about Build Numbers from the post pinned at the top of the main forum.

Hope something in this helps. If nothing does, add some screenshots and we'll give it our best shot.


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 Post subject: Re: Teething problems [hopefully]
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:18 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:08 pm
Posts: 975
Location: Southampton, England
Trainz Version: TS12
Trainz Build: 49922
Author KUID: 688183
This is on TS12, but probably also applicable to TS2010, since they behave pretty similarly...
I've found that the AI tends to behave a little unpredictably if there is another train on the track between the current train and its destination. Say I have 2 trains, A and B, both travelling from Point 1 to Point 2, like so:

Point 1_Train A___signal____signal___signal___Train B___signal___Point 2_____

If train B is on its way traveling right, and I tell A to "navigate to point 2", sometimes the train will not move, until train B has moved past point 2, even if it has clear signals. And when I say don't move, the controls disappear as expected but then reappear again almost instantly, and I can drive it around manually. Then, as soon as train B passes point 2, the AI kicks in, I lose control of train A and it proceeds to point 2 as instructed. I say this is unpredictable because I can't consistently reproduce it - creating the same scenario multiple times yields different results - on some runs everything works correctly, and on others train A will not move until B has passed point 2. The only fix I have found is to start a new session and hope the AI wants to play ball this time...

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 Post subject: Re: Teething problems [hopefully]
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:32 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 7:30 pm
Posts: 44
Location: Nottingham
Trainz Version: TS2010
Trainz Build: 49933
Author KUID: 226741
Thanks for the ideas, I'll work through the various options and see what does or doesn't improve things.


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 Post subject: Re: Teething problems [hopefully]
PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:13 pm 
Milepost 3

Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 7:30 pm
Posts: 44
Location: Nottingham
Trainz Version: TS2010
Trainz Build: 49933
Author KUID: 226741
RowanTrodd wrote:
If possible, use Content Manager to do the downloading, rather than the Auran store's "Download All". Just be sure that you're not trying to download content which has a build number which is too high. You can read about Build Numbers from the post pinned at the top of the main forum.

Hope something in this helps. If nothing does, add some screenshots and we'll give it our best shot.

Not really worth a screenshot but clicking the Content Manager produces no result, you get the finger logo but then no waiting type change and no result.

Using 'Download Helper' and the 'Download ftp' link gets me a .cdp file in my windows download folder with the KUID number, but then I can't get this to do anything and it clearly isn't talking to Trainz as nothing new appears in the game.

I've also tried an FTP explorer which gets me into an Auran area but not into the restricted area identified in the download details. Is there a way to actually contact Auran or are they a 'we've had your money so who cares' type organisation.


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 Post subject: Re: Teething problems [hopefully]
PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:58 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:24 pm
Posts: 35
Trainz Version: TS12
Trainz Build: 0
Author KUID: 0
If you have a .cdp file on your local system, open Content Manager and select Import Content Files from the menu; select the file and it should load. My screenshot remark was more about the AI issue, rather than the content question!


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 Post subject: Re: Teething problems [hopefully]
PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:13 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 3:16 pm
Posts: 1290
Location: Crewe, Cheshire, UK
Trainz Version: TRS19
Trainz Build: 96000
Author KUID: 425700
For info, it isn't Auran but N3V and the helpdesk link is available at the top of the N3V forum, however 2010 is not supported, support expired in September 2014. You are better off posting in the 2010 forum at N3V, there are a few still using 2010. https://forums.auran.com/trainz/forumdi ... ?59-TS2010
Note you need to register for the forum with the same username you registered 2010 with online, otherwise you won't get access to the 2010 area, any problems with 2010 not showing in your timeline then the helpdesk will sort that out.


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