It's all going wrong. Let's blame immigrants. Huzzah for 'Little Britain'.
Except research suggests immigrants, especially those from within the EU, put in more than they take out. If fact, migrants are 43% less likely to be claiming benefits than UK born workers but let's not let that sort of thing get in the way.
The Politics thread
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Re: The Politics thread
Research will always state what the government want you to hear, when said research is funded by the government.
Immigration deniers will never look at the whole issue, just pick the bits that suit.
It's not just the benefits issue, it's also the overcrowding, language problems causing expense to the taxpayer, strain on hospital & doctor appointments, strain on the limited school places, overcrowded public transport, etc,etc.
Immigation is not a bad thing, but it has to be controlled, we don't need anymore pickpockets, murderers, people traffickers, prostitutes or other criminals, we already have enough of our own.
As for those claiming asylum, the rules state they should claim in the first safe country they get to, NOT travel all the way through Italy & France to get to Calais, then try to illegally enter Britain.
Immigration deniers will never look at the whole issue, just pick the bits that suit.
It's not just the benefits issue, it's also the overcrowding, language problems causing expense to the taxpayer, strain on hospital & doctor appointments, strain on the limited school places, overcrowded public transport, etc,etc.
Immigation is not a bad thing, but it has to be controlled, we don't need anymore pickpockets, murderers, people traffickers, prostitutes or other criminals, we already have enough of our own.
As for those claiming asylum, the rules state they should claim in the first safe country they get to, NOT travel all the way through Italy & France to get to Calais, then try to illegally enter Britain.
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- Warbo40
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Re: The Politics thread
Exactly, right on the button blackwatch.blackwatch13 wrote:Research will always state what the government want you to hear, when said research is funded by the government.
Immigration deniers will never look at the whole issue, just pick the bits that suit.
It's not just the benefits issue, it's also the overcrowding, language problems causing expense to the taxpayer, strain on hospital & doctor appointments, strain on the limited school places, overcrowded public transport, etc,etc.
Immigation is not a bad thing, but it has to be controlled, we don't need anymore pickpockets, murderers, people traffickers, prostitutes or other criminals, we already have enough of our own.
As for those claiming asylum, the rules state they should claim in the first safe country they get to, NOT travel all the way through Italy & France to get to Calais, then try to illegally enter Britain.
Work to live not live to work.
- james73
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Re: The Politics thread
See, "austerity" is political ideology. It's all about the cost of everything and the value of nothing.Warbo40 wrote:As you say James73 the public services, etc have been underfunded and mis-managed for decades putting financial strains on those said services. Add to that the countries ever increasing population growth caused by more people entering our country either legally or otherwise has put further strain on them at a time of severe austerity causing them to further overspend. So in my opinion your both right.
Whilst the crooks in Parliament are telling us that someone on the dole in a council house with a
spare bedroom needs to have their benefits cut, they're spending £billions on yet more US-built
weapons of mass destruction based not but 40 miles from where I'm typing this right now.
Add to that the billions they're spending for various London-based transport projects - £15bn for
Crossrail, and I've read about a Crossrail 2, running North to South. And also add to that this ham-fisted
High Speed 2 project - a railway that will cost god knows what but should've been built 30 years ago.
The fact they've ignored suggestions to even look at re-using the majority of Great Central Railway, a
line that was built for just this purpose, a high speed line with a possible link to a Channel Tunnel, tells
you all you needs to know. Re-using the GCR would save £billions - but Gideon Osborne and the rest, all
of a sudden, aren't interested in saving money on this matter. Why is that? Cos they want more public
money spent on projects they can tender out to various companies that will offer some form of recompense
to them, either now or after their political career ends. Crooks. Crooks who are taking the piss out of the
public (while they sit stupefied by X Factor and the rest) as these leaders of men shove god knows what
up their nose as they think of more & more ways to destroy the country and divide the masses.
Correct.PFX wrote:It's all going wrong. Let's blame immigrants. Huzzah for 'Little Britain'.
Except research suggests immigrants, especially those from within the EU, put in more than they take out. If fact, migrants are 43% less likely to be claiming benefits than UK born workers but let's not let that sort of thing get in the way.
EU migrants pay £20bn more in taxes than they receive:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c49043a8-6447 ... z3NKABUrxq
It reminds me of when the Polish immigrants were getting it in the neck just under a decade ago for "coming
over here and taking our benefits..." Official figures at the time showed around 450,000 Polish people in the
UK. Less than 5000 of them were claiming any kind of benefit...
More up to date info - Last year The Telegraph claimed 14,000 Poles were claiming benefits. That was
a bare-faced lie. In fact, the number was less than 7000.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/alex-massi ... -part-two/
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Re: The Politics thread
I'll agree with you on the HS2 line debacle seeing as i live in Long Eaton close to the proposed Toton Interchange station. The original proposed plans showed that the line would go straight through the middle of the town along the Toton low level line causing untold chaos. As the plan was to build a new Nottingham road bridge to replace the current one and then close the two level crossings over the line. But knowing Network Rail in their great wisdom they'd do it the other way round leaving the town with no way to get to Nottingham than people having to use the A52 which is a busy enough road anyway. Or it would force people to use the new tram extension out to Toton instead which is already months behind schedule.
As for the old route of the Great Central railway it is a good idea as most of the countryside route is still there the only problem is the urban areas such as Leicester & Nottingham where large areas have now been built on, especially Nottingham where a lot of the old route south has been utilised for the new tram extension. I suppose small deviations could be made to take the line away from both Leicester & Nottingham. As for Rugby part of the bridge abutments are still there over the WCML with the embankment / cuttings still mainly intact on the southern section which i believe is a cycle path. Trace the route south most of the trackbed is still visible on google maps. At Quainton Road station where the Buckinghamshire railway centre is the track around that area is being relaid for Chiltern trains operations soon. I read the other day in a rail magazine the orignal plans for the rebuilding of Euston station have been thrown out so that has already wasted the taxpayer millions of pounds. HS2 is fundamentally a good idea but as you say James it's 20-30 years to late.
As for the old route of the Great Central railway it is a good idea as most of the countryside route is still there the only problem is the urban areas such as Leicester & Nottingham where large areas have now been built on, especially Nottingham where a lot of the old route south has been utilised for the new tram extension. I suppose small deviations could be made to take the line away from both Leicester & Nottingham. As for Rugby part of the bridge abutments are still there over the WCML with the embankment / cuttings still mainly intact on the southern section which i believe is a cycle path. Trace the route south most of the trackbed is still visible on google maps. At Quainton Road station where the Buckinghamshire railway centre is the track around that area is being relaid for Chiltern trains operations soon. I read the other day in a rail magazine the orignal plans for the rebuilding of Euston station have been thrown out so that has already wasted the taxpayer millions of pounds. HS2 is fundamentally a good idea but as you say James it's 20-30 years to late.
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- james73
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Re: The Politics thread
Warbo40 - I'm well aware of how much of the GCR has been built on/removed throughout
Leicester & Nottingham. However, restoring it would STILL cost much less than this
unelected government are proposing spending on THEIR version of a high speed railway.
That's a fact.
And by the way - since when have the tories been friends of the railways in the UK?? It
doesn't strike anyone as odd that the party that starved BR of funding in the 1980s, in
order to curry public opinion against the company so that they could then claim it would
better run by private firms (another cocaine-fueled lie), are now telling us the public should
fund this HS2 debacle?
How does that work? I thought the railways were now privately owned, why should the
public pay - again??
Leicester & Nottingham. However, restoring it would STILL cost much less than this
unelected government are proposing spending on THEIR version of a high speed railway.
That's a fact.
And by the way - since when have the tories been friends of the railways in the UK?? It
doesn't strike anyone as odd that the party that starved BR of funding in the 1980s, in
order to curry public opinion against the company so that they could then claim it would
better run by private firms (another cocaine-fueled lie), are now telling us the public should
fund this HS2 debacle?
How does that work? I thought the railways were now privately owned, why should the
public pay - again??
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Re: The Politics thread
Not dis-agreeing with you on the facts of the HS2.james73 wrote:Warbo40 - I'm well aware of how much of the GCR has been built on/removed throughout
Leicester & Nottingham. However, restoring it would STILL cost much less than this
unelected government are proposing spending on THEIR version of a high speed railway.
That's a fact.
And by the way - since when have the tories been friends of the railways in the UK?? It
doesn't strike anyone as odd that the party that starved BR of funding in the 1980s, in
order to curry public opinion against the company so that they could then claim it would
better run by private firms (another cocaine-fueled lie), are now telling us the public should
fund this HS2 debacle?
How does that work? I thought the railways were now privately owned, why should the
public pay - again??
Work to live not live to work.
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Re: The Politics thread
Sorry to dig this up again but I've finally got round to reading this, been a busy few weeks. I know it's an internet faux pas for the OP not to comment on their own thread particularly one like this.
So regarding HS2, after the next election and especially if the Tories get voted in again, I reckon the HS2 scheme will be dead in the water, another good ol British pipe dream. Things have already gone quiet on that front. From what I hear NRs program of electrification is already over budget, so I think it's going to be an either or scenario for the treasury on these infrastructure projects.
On the subject of UKIP, I don't think they stand much chance in the elections, Farrage is just a comedy act that's getting stale quickly. The main people that vote for him are the rose tinted specs brigade that dream of a Britain that never existed in the first place. Yes I will admit for an independent party they've got an unusually large voter share, but nothing to the levels we should be worrying about, he's just a very effective media guff magnet. Unfortunately though its probably dropped a wrong message to Parliament that the people want politics to move to an even more right wing direction, which solves nothing.
So regarding HS2, after the next election and especially if the Tories get voted in again, I reckon the HS2 scheme will be dead in the water, another good ol British pipe dream. Things have already gone quiet on that front. From what I hear NRs program of electrification is already over budget, so I think it's going to be an either or scenario for the treasury on these infrastructure projects.
On the subject of UKIP, I don't think they stand much chance in the elections, Farrage is just a comedy act that's getting stale quickly. The main people that vote for him are the rose tinted specs brigade that dream of a Britain that never existed in the first place. Yes I will admit for an independent party they've got an unusually large voter share, but nothing to the levels we should be worrying about, he's just a very effective media guff magnet. Unfortunately though its probably dropped a wrong message to Parliament that the people want politics to move to an even more right wing direction, which solves nothing.
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Re: The Politics thread
I agree on HS2. It'll probably be scrapped - but if not, I dread to think of the final cost because if the government had £5 to make a cake, it would end up costing them £9.
As for Farage, I suspect UKIP will get about 7 seats after the generals - enough to keep his ego alive and well on TV for another 5 years afterwards, but still not enough to cause any significant issues in parliament.
I really dread who we'll have in government after the generals. The Tories can't be trusted. Labour can't be trusted. The Lib-Dems also can't be trusted. Its a case of voting for the best of a bad bunch.
I guess, deep down, I'm hoping for a Labour-Lib Dem coalition - but the chances of it happening are slim. Labour are less cut-throat than the Tories, but they can't be trusted with money - so they need someone alongside them to hold them back.
As for Farage, I suspect UKIP will get about 7 seats after the generals - enough to keep his ego alive and well on TV for another 5 years afterwards, but still not enough to cause any significant issues in parliament.
I really dread who we'll have in government after the generals. The Tories can't be trusted. Labour can't be trusted. The Lib-Dems also can't be trusted. Its a case of voting for the best of a bad bunch.
I guess, deep down, I'm hoping for a Labour-Lib Dem coalition - but the chances of it happening are slim. Labour are less cut-throat than the Tories, but they can't be trusted with money - so they need someone alongside them to hold them back.
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Re: The Politics thread
Can't disagree with you on most of your points, except I would say the Tories are more economically incompetent than Labour, more recessions have happened under them than anyone else, and the 2008 recession was not even Labour's fault as it was a global recession, it was a case of Labour being at the wrong place at the wrong time, had it not been for Brown we'd probably be in a similar situation to Greece.Briggsy wrote:I agree on HS2. It'll probably be scrapped - but if not, I dread to think of the final cost because if the government had £5 to make a cake, it would end up costing them £9.
As for Farage, I suspect UKIP will get about 7 seats after the generals - enough to keep his ego alive and well on TV for another 5 years afterwards, but still not enough to cause any significant issues in parliament.
I really dread who we'll have in government after the generals. The Tories can't be trusted. Labour can't be trusted. The Lib-Dems also can't be trusted. Its a case of voting for the best of a bad bunch.
I guess, deep down, I'm hoping for a Labour-Lib Dem coalition - but the chances of it happening are slim. Labour are less cut-throat than the Tories, but they can't be trusted with money - so they need someone alongside them to hold them back.