Referendum: In or Out
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Re: Referendum: In or Out
I haven't contributed to this before, so I will now, now that I have something to contribute.
I found this rather interesting article, https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the ... &tid=ss_tw, seems perhaps the people didn't really choose as they had no idea what the **** was going on.
I found this rather interesting article, https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the ... &tid=ss_tw, seems perhaps the people didn't really choose as they had no idea what the **** was going on.
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Re: Referendum: In or Out
Imho, the Washington Post has about as much credibility as the Leprechaun Weekly, if folk had to "frantically google what the EU was", then they've been walking around for years with their head in a bucket.
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Re: Referendum: In or Out
My apolgies, Pacerguy, for my previous rant. It was not my intention to direct my ire at you personally but I was so incredibly angry about a lot of the nonsensical rubbish that has been spouted by some very poor losers all day long. Negative rubbish that has little or no truth in it is not going to help us move forward.
Karl, I understand your concerns. You have my sympathy because you have never known life outside a corrupt EU so you are bound to be concerned. However, let me assure you (and you, too, Innis) that the turmoil we see at the moment is purely the mega-rich moneymen twitching and flinching and running around like headless chickens. These people (as much as I detest most of them) are not stupid and they will very soon stop their antics because they'll realise that they are only cutting their own throats at the moment. When the dust settles the World will be surprisingly similar to what it was - but without Madame Hitler, er sorry, Merkel and co. telling us what we will or won't be able to do in our own country. The moneymen will calm down and stop twitching and much of this panic will disappear.
I do agree, however, with what you say about the numbers who voted Karl. People, young and old alike, should now realise that their vote is very important. Nobody can win on their own but if you get together with like minded people and you all cast your votes then your voice will undoubtedly be heard. Apathy has for too long been the enemy of the working classes. Maybe now you younger folk will mobilise and put forward YOUR ideas for a better future for all of us.
What's that saying? "All that evil needs to succeed is for good men to do nothing." It's how Fascism and Communism get a hold in many countries. People don't bother to vote because of apathy but the extremists make sure that they get their supporters to the ballot box; and when they win, they take away your right to vote them out.
As far as austerity goes, I think politicians are realising that that's a dirty word now. Cameron has had to resign because he has no credibility in a non-EU Britain. Osbourne committed political suicide by threatening people with his emergency budget. He has less than a 0% chance of being the next Tory leader now. And then we have Boris. I don't particularly like him but he is not stupid. He knows that he's got to deliver something of this bright new World that he was promising if he gets anywhere near number 10. Austerity just won't cut it. And Jeremy Corbyn has already said that a Labour government would abandon austerity completely.
At the end of it all though, we, the British people, will get to decide who governs us and it won't be some faceless bureaucrat in Brussells. Oh, and Karl, a General Election can be called at anytime. Even within an hour of the previous one if desired. It's up to the government of the day - but they cannot go more than 5 years now without holding another one.
I hope that we can all settle down again now to some semblance of normality. I hope all the scare stories and rumours will die off and we can become a united nation again free from the corruption of outsiders looking to make gains for their own countries. And I hope that all of us can share in the future prosperity of our truly independent Britain.
Dave
Karl, I understand your concerns. You have my sympathy because you have never known life outside a corrupt EU so you are bound to be concerned. However, let me assure you (and you, too, Innis) that the turmoil we see at the moment is purely the mega-rich moneymen twitching and flinching and running around like headless chickens. These people (as much as I detest most of them) are not stupid and they will very soon stop their antics because they'll realise that they are only cutting their own throats at the moment. When the dust settles the World will be surprisingly similar to what it was - but without Madame Hitler, er sorry, Merkel and co. telling us what we will or won't be able to do in our own country. The moneymen will calm down and stop twitching and much of this panic will disappear.
I do agree, however, with what you say about the numbers who voted Karl. People, young and old alike, should now realise that their vote is very important. Nobody can win on their own but if you get together with like minded people and you all cast your votes then your voice will undoubtedly be heard. Apathy has for too long been the enemy of the working classes. Maybe now you younger folk will mobilise and put forward YOUR ideas for a better future for all of us.
What's that saying? "All that evil needs to succeed is for good men to do nothing." It's how Fascism and Communism get a hold in many countries. People don't bother to vote because of apathy but the extremists make sure that they get their supporters to the ballot box; and when they win, they take away your right to vote them out.
As far as austerity goes, I think politicians are realising that that's a dirty word now. Cameron has had to resign because he has no credibility in a non-EU Britain. Osbourne committed political suicide by threatening people with his emergency budget. He has less than a 0% chance of being the next Tory leader now. And then we have Boris. I don't particularly like him but he is not stupid. He knows that he's got to deliver something of this bright new World that he was promising if he gets anywhere near number 10. Austerity just won't cut it. And Jeremy Corbyn has already said that a Labour government would abandon austerity completely.
At the end of it all though, we, the British people, will get to decide who governs us and it won't be some faceless bureaucrat in Brussells. Oh, and Karl, a General Election can be called at anytime. Even within an hour of the previous one if desired. It's up to the government of the day - but they cannot go more than 5 years now without holding another one.
I hope that we can all settle down again now to some semblance of normality. I hope all the scare stories and rumours will die off and we can become a united nation again free from the corruption of outsiders looking to make gains for their own countries. And I hope that all of us can share in the future prosperity of our truly independent Britain.
Dave
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Re: Referendum: In or Out
I've been following the last few posts with interest. My understanding though is that we're not completely out of the EU yet due to the political processes that have to take place first (Article 50 etc). Until then (and this is also based on my understanding) we still have to follow EU processes.
Incidentally it was my first time voting as well even though I ended up being on the losing side (what both campaigns put out didn't help though). I'm just hoping no-one has a go at me for that though.
I'm also interested to see what comes once Cameron resigns as it could influence how things go.
One thing I am trying to get my head around though is the fixed term parliamentary system and the laws involved with it.
Shane
Incidentally it was my first time voting as well even though I ended up being on the losing side (what both campaigns put out didn't help though). I'm just hoping no-one has a go at me for that though.
I'm also interested to see what comes once Cameron resigns as it could influence how things go.
One thing I am trying to get my head around though is the fixed term parliamentary system and the laws involved with it.
Shane
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Re: Referendum: In or Out
Well don't be it's been slowly going up, heck we won't actually be free of the EU chains for at least another 2 years and three months, it was just the greedy rich over reacting by assuming the polls indicating that we'd vote for remain over the last month or so were correct and pushing rates up that's made the fall far worse than it would have been. Besides a low pound is good for exports so most businesses should be making the most of their overseas sales while they have the chance.I am rather worried by the drop in the value of the pound
I wouldn't worry about any more austerity measures just yet, it's pretty obvious that the politicians of all persuasions have had a massive wakeup call about being out of touch with reality and are going to have to tread carefully from now on or get chucked out at the next election, which I suspect might be called early and will probably result in another coalition of some kind.
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Re: Referendum: In or Out
It would be more correct to say the English and Welsh get to decide who governs the UK, given neither Northern Irish or Scottish people endorsed a leave.cyberdonblue wrote:At the end of it all though, we, the British people, will get to decide who governs us and it won't be some faceless bureaucrat in Brussells.
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Re: Referendum: In or Out
Boris may have come across as a fool in the past but he put a pretty good speech together this morning with none of his usual blustering showmanship, as Dave says. We may not like him but there is an intelligent brain under that hair.
Labour party is infighting yet again as well, will they ever learn?
Labour party is infighting yet again as well, will they ever learn?
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Re: Referendum: In or Out
Anyone who thinks Boris is a fool is the fool. Boris is extremely intelligent and shrewd. His buffoonery was always an act.
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Re: Referendum: In or Out
But despite the limited powers they have under devolution they are still part of the United kingdom and under the British Governments control and it was the United Kingdom that voted not Scotland, England, Northern Ireland and Wales. It was the total votes from all areas that decided the issue, not regional choices although it came across as such.PFX wrote:It would be more correct to say the English and Welsh get to decide who governs the UK, given neither Northern Irish or Scottish people endorsed a leave.cyberdonblue wrote:At the end of it all though, we, the British people, will get to decide who governs us and it won't be some faceless bureaucrat in Brussells.
Hate to say it having some Scots blood in me but I don't think Scotland could go it alone and probably would have to wait until we have completed our exit procedure before they could have another referendum, then a long drawn out split from the rest of the UK probably another couple of years at least and then yet more years before the EU would even consider them a viable member, better to bite the bullet and make the best out of remaining in the UK.
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Re: Referendum: In or Out
I'm not arguing that point, just the fact that "the British people" get to decide. English and Welsh people voted out. Scottish and Northern Irish people didn't so some British people decided.
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Re: Referendum: In or Out
But so too, some people voted Tory at the last election and some people didn't, Innis. Unfortunately The Tories got the necessary votes to form a government and those of us that despise them have to wear it. It's how democracy works.PFX wrote:I'm not arguing that point, just the fact that "the British people" get to decide. English and Welsh people voted out. Scottish and Northern Irish people didn't so some British people decided.
As far as the Scottish voting for independence again goes, it's not going to happen. They can't hold a referendum without an Act of Parliament, and they ain't gonna be allowed a second shot at it right now. There are too many other things to sort out first.
Don't worry, Shane. No one has a right to have a go at you for voting the way you feel is right. You had a right to vote any way you like and you dutifully exercised that right. Well done. That, too, is democracy.shaneturner12 wrote:Incidentally it was my first time voting as well even though I ended up being on the losing side (what both campaigns put out didn't help though). I'm just hoping no-one has a go at me for that though.
Dave
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Re: Referendum: In or Out
The Tories introduced the fixed 5 year terms law - so to hold a general election, it would need to be approved by MPs in parliament as an "exceptional circumstance". It's unlikely MPs will decline - particularly Labour MPs - but something tells me the Tories wouldn't hold a general election because they've only got a small majority as it is - and Osborne pissed off most working classes since the last GE by trying to reduce tax credits.klambert wrote:John Mcdonell has suggested we need another general election (I didn't know you could hold one within only 1 year of a political term).
I don't think the Tories would win if a GE were to be called now. I could see a hung parliament with a Labour/SNP coalition forming then.
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Re: Referendum: In or Out
Unfortunately, the press and the former Blairites are doing their best to undermine Corbyn and, indirectly, the Labour Party itself at the moment so the outcome of ANY election is highly unpredictable right now IMHO. It's currently turmoil all round which, to my mind, says that none of these idiots made any serious contingency plans for the current situation. That's how cocky and confident they were of railroading (no pun intended) the people of this country into blindly accepting the establishment's argument.
These former Blairites should be taught a lesson too. Blair should be in prison for what he got up to. And his mates ought to remember Corbyn was elected to his position by a massive majority, but these lunatics won't accept the will of the people - just like most elitist politicians. They hate to think that we can all think for ourselves. I hope the party and the public remember them when an election appears on the horizon.
My advice, for the time being, would be to wait, watch and listen. Let the dust settle and then decide which direction you want to follow.
Dave
These former Blairites should be taught a lesson too. Blair should be in prison for what he got up to. And his mates ought to remember Corbyn was elected to his position by a massive majority, but these lunatics won't accept the will of the people - just like most elitist politicians. They hate to think that we can all think for ourselves. I hope the party and the public remember them when an election appears on the horizon.
My advice, for the time being, would be to wait, watch and listen. Let the dust settle and then decide which direction you want to follow.
Dave
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Re: Referendum: In or Out
Since the referendum I have been feeling like I want to apologise to everyone on behalf of the young people of my age for their behaviour since the vote.
So far I've be dismayed to see a proportion of my generation;
- Telling the elderley that they will be dieing soon to their faces
- Going absoloutley crazy that its the end of the world (literally, I have seen so many apocolypse comparisions)
- Generally personally attacking anyone that they can find that supported brexit, usually pulling out the racist card without even hearing the reason that person voted that way
Even if you feel this way it is not right to do these sorts of things and it unfortunately stereotypes the lot of us despite the fact that not all teenagers and young people, such as myself, share the same views.
I was an odd one out, I was a Brexiteer - I went into all this neutrally and made my mind up from there, however I don't dislike or feel the need to attack anyone that supported remain, there were some good points to their campaign and I respect everyone has their own views on the situation and I know that we can continue to be humans despite our differences in opinion.
So far I've be dismayed to see a proportion of my generation;
- Telling the elderley that they will be dieing soon to their faces
- Going absoloutley crazy that its the end of the world (literally, I have seen so many apocolypse comparisions)
- Generally personally attacking anyone that they can find that supported brexit, usually pulling out the racist card without even hearing the reason that person voted that way
Even if you feel this way it is not right to do these sorts of things and it unfortunately stereotypes the lot of us despite the fact that not all teenagers and young people, such as myself, share the same views.
I was an odd one out, I was a Brexiteer - I went into all this neutrally and made my mind up from there, however I don't dislike or feel the need to attack anyone that supported remain, there were some good points to their campaign and I respect everyone has their own views on the situation and I know that we can continue to be humans despite our differences in opinion.
Dan W
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Re: Referendum: In or Out
Mark my words the next election will be fought on idol promises from one of the political camps to get us back into the EU ! Those who voted stay will jump on the idea and vote them in . A few months after that it will become very clear to them that there's little or no way back in unless we accept draconian conditions from the EU masters .
One thing for sure is that if the vote had gone in favour of the remains then the EU would still of made an example of us to ensure that other countries wouldn't consider going down the same route . So either way the EU is going to give the UK a rough ride .
As for Scotland (Wales and Northern Ireland) , if they what to get out this union then let them go . Sturgeon is like a dog with a bone and its going to get to a point that what ever the rest of the UK does (that they don't like) then they are going to threaten a referendum ! They can then join the queue of other countries waiting to join , It will be Schengen and the Euro for them plus high security fences and armed guards at the border with England . Good luck to them .
As for me I voted out .
One thing for sure is that if the vote had gone in favour of the remains then the EU would still of made an example of us to ensure that other countries wouldn't consider going down the same route . So either way the EU is going to give the UK a rough ride .
As for Scotland (Wales and Northern Ireland) , if they what to get out this union then let them go . Sturgeon is like a dog with a bone and its going to get to a point that what ever the rest of the UK does (that they don't like) then they are going to threaten a referendum ! They can then join the queue of other countries waiting to join , It will be Schengen and the Euro for them plus high security fences and armed guards at the border with England . Good luck to them .
As for me I voted out .
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