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 Post subject: Re: Political Discussion
PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:45 pm 
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cyberdonblue wrote:
I don't think Corbyn is trying to con anyone - young or old - but merely saying that, with interest rates at record lows as they are now, we'd be foolish not to borrow now and put ourselves back on the map as manufacturers. We should spend money on the young to guarantee them a future with a worthwhile job and a decent income. Train them, teach them the skills that have been lost for too many years.


The interest rate is this country has little baring to what we would owe if we borrowed more. A lot of our debt is with oversea's investors and involved with the bond market which is totally different to our bank interest rate.
I do agree though we should invest in our young, but don't think free tuition fees are the way to go. Firstly it doesn't really work in Scotland as places are very limited, because the Uni's end up excepting more students that pay from elsewhere, because they need to make a profit and so Scottish born students miss out. In fact only just over 50% are non fee paying students and some 16,000 Scottish students failed to be excepted in 2016 alone.
Also if we borrow more to pay for free Uni tuition, then all of the young in this country will get saddled with paying down the national debt down later in life regardless if they went to Uni or not. Also spare a thought for the less academic in our society. If the clever kids suddenly don't get lumbered with £30,000 of debt, what do we do for the one's that don't want or not educated enough to go to Uni? The one's that just want to be plumbers or builders or just work hard in a car plant day in day out? I think they will feel pretty left out considering that when these students leave Uni with their free degree with no £30k+ debt and then will most probably go on to earn more as well in better paid jobs, just to rub salt in the wounds. We have to come up with a plan that is fair to all not just the gifted few. Students now only have to start paying back once they earn over £24,000 a year and that seems fair enough to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Discussion
PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 8:41 pm 
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I've seen flags mentioned a number of time in relation to this thread and I was reminded of a comment by John Hume who's father said "you can't eat a flag". Sage advice indeed.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Discussion
PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:25 pm 
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Interest rates worldwide are rock bottom at the moment, irrespective of how the loans are raised. Every country in the world is pleading poverty and the moneymen need to keep their wheel turning for their own sake (dead money sitting in a bank is no good to them. It's not earning them anything.) What I find amazing though is how our national debt keeps growing and the country is supposedly skint yet our government have no problem finding something like £18 BILLION so far to bomb the sh*te out of Syria whenever it suits them.

The biggest problem we've got in our country these days though is that most of our young people have been brainwashed by the establishment into thinking that they have to go to University. Tory Bliar started all this bullsh*t and his Tory party mates have carried it on. Why? Because if you're kept in school till you're 18 and at University till you're, what 22? 23? 24? then you're not showing up as Unemployed and these government slobs don't have to worry about you ruining their precious unemployment figures. Out of sight, out of mind.

In my home city, and I'm damn sure the same has happened in and around yours too, places that were once Technical Colleges are now calling themselves Universities. It's laughable. They are no more a University than the M6 is. Great Barr Technical College doesn't sound great, does it? However, change its name to The University of Central England and splash UCE everywhere and it sounds like a world beater. You couldn't make it up, could you? They should be giving out degrees in bullsh*t.

What's more, there are some absolutely ludicrous subjects on offer at these "Universities" and most employers would (and do) look at some of the people turning up for interviews with qualifications in such crazy subjects and they just wet themselves laughing. These young people are totally unemployable because they haven't got a clue about basic maths and English, they've just spent about 3 years of their life studying David Beckham (or something just as stupid) and they're about as worldly wise as a 5 year old because they've spent their entire life so far at school.

It was almost laughable to watch when it was happening but, once Bliar had convinced the young people that they really should go to University, or they'd miss out because their mates were all going, the really clever part came along. Cameron and his Libcon mates, newly elected, realised that as well as just keeping these sheep off the unemployment figures there was actually a good way to line their Tory mates pockets even more impressively. Why not charge these gullible people an exhorbitant fee to attend these third class academies? (even though the Libs had promised it would never happen on their watch.) Have you SEEN how much building and expansion has gone on at these places since "Tuition Fees" came in?

This ridiculous idea that everyone needs to go to University is really quite new, in historic terms, to this country. It's now just another Tory con to bleed people dry and it's made people frightened to think for themselves and look at having a future outside a classroom. So, I repeat, why not borrow money at world record low interest rates and rebuild British manufacturing? Youngsters would then not have to go to Mickey Mouse Universities and gain laughable "qualifications." They would enter into a proper apprenticeship sponsored by a proper manufacturing company who would then guarentee them a productive job at the end of it as well as a solid qualification recognised and respected worldwide (the way things always used to be.) And they wouldn't owe the Tories 30 or 40 thousand pounds afterwards either.

Cheers

Dave

PS. It is not my intention to cast aspersions on genuine graduates or to belittle their hard earned qualifications. My gripe is about the brainwashers and the brainwashed who just drift along with the crowd because they are sheep and don't know what to do with themselves or they have no other alternative than to waste their time in this manner.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Discussion
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:34 am 
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Apologies if the thread seems a little jumbled. Some posts have been merged from the "Private firms are set return to rail maintenance" post for the second time.

Please keep any political posts (even if related to Private firms possibly returning to rail maintenance) - and keep the other thread solely for non-political posts.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Discussion
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:03 am 
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:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Jack, who hasn't made bad experiences with the NHS? Once, when I was suffering from a severe disease after having been bitten by a tick, those guys had to look up Wikipedia for ticks! At least I don't have to put up with that anymore, living in Germany and lining my pockets with your money... :twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: Political Discussion
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:53 am 
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Thanks for transferring everything Briggsy. ;)

@trainzrule - I underwent a triple heart bypass operation in February 2016 and I have to say that, without exception, every member of the NHS staff that I met was absolutely first class in their attitude and their ability, and I can assure you that they didn't have to look up "Heart bypass procedure" on Wikipedia once. The only failing in the NHS at the moment is the lack of money due to the Tories giving it to their mates (private contracts) or cutting back totally so that they can squander the money somewhere else in a more personally beneficial way. The NHS is full of dedicated men and women who unselfishly give their time, skills and unreserved effort to make sure that we, the general public, are given the best treatment we can possibly get without having to worry about health insurance or taking on horrendous loans in order to pay for such treatment. I, for one, will forever be grateful to them. :D

I'm also pretty damn sure that Wikipedia is THE LAST PLACE the NHS would refer to in order to diagnose a problem. There is a specialist hospital and research centre in Liverpool specifically designed to help in the diagnosis of mystery bites, fevers, viruses or parasites and they give 24 hour advice to hospitals all over the UK in many different ways. Wikipedia is full of factual information like, "My mate told me once that... blah blah blah..." I don't know of any hospitals in this country that rely on that kind of information. Maybe they do in Germany ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Political Discussion
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:10 pm 
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@cyberdonblue Back then, I was a kid and the doctor was specialised on children. So he wasn't supposed to be specialised on that. And I NEVER said the doctors were unkind, in fact they did everything they could for me and I'm very grateful for that. But my dad actually saw him looking up ticks on wikipedia.
Ironically, I was living on the Wirral back then, but they wouldn't let me go to that place in Liverpool because of all the bureaucracy. Health insurance works well here in Germany and it isn't too expensive. You're forgetting that British taxpayers also have to pay for their health via taxes.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Discussion
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:44 pm 
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Hi Cyberdonblue,

In response to your post about universities.

Here's I think why many young people go to university going by my own personal experience.

I'm currently 22 and tried to get my first job with the railways at 17, I was made redundant after 3 months due to the firm going bust with absolutely no warning, one morning I turned up to find a notice pinned to the door and no money paid into my account, there was even no one at the head office, disappeared literally overnight! That's private rail contractors for you. Had this been British Rail, I'd still be with them, in a good, stable, union represented job, that provides the means for me to be able to set up my own household.

Right so it was back to the drawing board then, I went to college to study engineering and IT for four years, I left about a year ago and have been working full time up until recently, I was again made redundant, I blame this on the nature of many employment contracts within the IT sector being hire and fire. This way of working has been very easy to implement, due to the contraction of the unions during the 80s meaning many IT workers are without proper union representation, due to it being a relatively new industry and are free for employers to treat them like dirt. In the time I've been working, I've been made to do 6 day weeks or threat of sacking, due to high staff turnover. Had to skip hospital appointments as the company wouldn't give me the leave, seen talented colleagues treated like filth by inadequate managers and sacked due to taking necessary sick leave, and with this recent rendundancy as well, I've reached the stage where I've had enough. I've decided to go to university in the hope of studying something where I'm less expendable.

The moral of this story is that many youth today decide to pursue university, due to the absolutely parlous working conditions of unskilled, semi skilled and college skilled labour, it's a case of either be in with the chance to study something where you'll be of greater value to an employer, or face an overcompetitive, under-staffed, underpaid, under-unionised, hire and fire job market, probably in a cruddy service sector job where you don't do anything that has any social value.

Many older people talk about the winter of discontent of 1979 and how bad things were then, I reckon had I been 22 in 1979 and continued working for the railway from the age of 17 as originally planned, I'd be in a nice stable position, where I could begin to save up for a mortgage and a wedding, without having to worry about spending 3/4 of my wage packet on rent, being sacked for taking time off for health reasons or the security of my job, due to a manager deciding my face no longer fits.

Let Corbyn drag us back to the 70s, I'd welcome it, anything has to be better than this current mess!

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 Post subject: Re: Political Discussion
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:37 pm 
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Sending kids to college/uni was beginning when I left school and I found myself 'coerced' into going to uni instead of getting a trade (I'd planned on being a sparks). Having wasted the tuition fees in going, I left after a year and a half with a student loan to pay back. It was the first year these were introduced. By the time I got my act together and started hunting for an apprenticeship, I'd left things a bit late and no company would take me on because they thought I was too old. I would be surprised if I was the only one in this predicament and now look at the huge shortage in people with trades.

Another problem with sending such a large number of kids to uni straight from school is that, in my experience at least, they leave with their degree (in some cases with a fairly pointless subject) and unrealistic expectations in relation to wages and badly lacking in life skills as I think someone mentioned already. While I was more than academically able for uni, I didn't want to be there. I liked working with my hands and that is something I didn't get the chance to do. I spent a few years working in a call centre, for all intent and purpose, a modern workhouse. It was incredible how many of the other employees had degrees but were unable to gain employment in their chosen field.

While I certainly have no disrespect for those who choose to go on to further education, it should not be the be all and end all. There are plenty of alternatives.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Discussion
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:16 pm 
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trainzrule wrote:
You're forgetting that British taxpayers also have to pay for their health via taxes.


But don't you also pay taxes in Germany?
Taxes that are most likely going to be increased soon, once the UK leaves the E.U. & stops paying in
all those billions, Germany is going to have to pay more in to prop up the bankrupt ex soviet countries
that the beloved chancellor was so keen to let in. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Political Discussion
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:51 am 
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My apolgies, it was not my intention to decry all those that go to University. I should have chosen my words more carefully instead of tarring everybody with my very wide brush. I suppose my gripe should be with the people who have made the broken down system become what it is; but I think I would turn into the mad axeman if I had to recount all the troubles I've run across because of the likes of The Witch Thatcher, John Major, Tory Bliar and David Cameron.

In the 1970's, before Thatcher got anywhere near the Tory leadership, you could tell the foreman to stick his job up his exhaust and walk out at dinnertime. By 9 O'clock the next morning you'd be working somewhere else - and probably on a better wage.

My generation only ever saw University as a place for toffs. Our aims were to get an apprenticeship in a good trade because you knew that once you'd qualified you would be accepted in that trade anywhere in the world because British qualifications meant that you'd had the best training a man could get. Thatcher destroyed all that. She smashed it to pieces by selling the best bits to foreigners and closing down the rest. It was unforgivable what she did. She destroyed the mines, the steelworks, the British car industry and anything else associated with manufacturing that even suggested it was making a profit. Anywhere that had a large Union membership - smash it... but for some reason she didn't dare touch the railways. I still don't understand that to this day. We had a brief war with her - a two week strike - and then she turned her back on us and marched off to fight someone else. Might well have been the miners, I can't really remember.

You two young men have my utmost sympathy though, Karl and Innis, for the damn awful way that you have been treated by the system in general and employers in particular in this so-called modern age. The Tory anti-Trade Union legislation was bad enough but when that low-life Bliar hijacked the Labour Party and then had the gall to add even more anti-trade Union legislation that was the final insult. Workers rights and conditions have deteriorated ever since. People in their 40's are classed as too old now to be taken on and school leavers are classed as too inexperienced. So who's doing these few available jobs then? Cheap labour in the form of foreign immigrants? I'm asking, not stating.

However, contrary to what Mr Howie would like you to believe, the country is finally starting to wake up. As you have so brilliantly written, Karl, "Take me back to the 1970's..." because at least people had a voice, I think you said. Yes, we did have and people are starting to demand one again.

The Tories have shoved workers rights down the toilet. Companies currently using zero hours contracts should be heavily punished retrospectively once Labour gets into power again - but they won't be. Such contracts are obscene and no fair thinking individual should ever stoop to such depths when employing someone. Young people, though, should now see that there is actually great pride in being a plumber, an electrician, a gas fitter, bricklayer or any one of a million other manual trades that Labour is promising to reintroduce. Great trades that we've had for decades. (Do we still have millers and grinders in our factories?)

I live not far from the old Longbridge car plant. It was huge. So big it had its own internal railway system. It employed thousands of people but it's now a muddy wasteland with a few modern glass buildings around the edges at one end. A very, very sad sight indeed. BMW bought it, bled it of all that was good (the Rover V8-engine, the mini and one or two other bits and pieces) and then they virtually gave away whatever was left to 2 British crooks. The company crashed not long afterwards - allegedly with huge debts - but it was soon revealed that our wealthy crooks had been selling off the useful bits behind the Unions backs just before the inevitable happened. Needless to say, the crooks retired as multi-millionaires and the entire workforce lost their pensions that they'd paid into all their lives. And all the lovely politicians stood by and never said a word. Vote Tory my arse!

There's now a plan to bring in the global boys again so that they can build one of their identical shopping centres and some extortionately priced houses and apartments (don't we build flats anymore then?) I hope they go bust. But what about jobs? There are older people who live around me who have never worked again since the plant closed.

It's time to shut down these Technical colleges parading as universities and give the young people a chance to train for a proper job. Don't lock them up in school and treat them as children until they're 18. Give them some responsibility, teach them some life skills. Let them make mistakes and learn from them, but don't carry on patronising them the way we are doing and then wondering why they can only just about tie their own shoe laces when they're 20.

Dave


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 Post subject: Re: Political Discussion
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:45 am 
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No offence taken about the uni remarks but thanks for suggesting I'm young. I suppose that's relative though. I agree having been one of those 'expected' to go.

I wouldn't mind going back the 70s except for the cars. I wouldn't own a Leyland motor but on the upside, look at the price of a pint!

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 Post subject: Re: Political Discussion
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:54 am 
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Let's see if we can get the old time machine working :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Political Discussion
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:40 pm 
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On the subject of "Technical colleges parading as universities", let's turn them back into Technical colleges, they
were one of the better ways for a youngster to learn a proper trade, they taught bricklaying, plumbing, electrical skills
to 'City & Guilds' certified standards as part of apprenticeships, using tutors who had done the job for years, they were
one of the better parts of our education system.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Discussion
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:21 pm 
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As also did the Skill Centres before they got privatised in 1989, asset stripped and then went bankrupt!
All time served Tradesmen, using real equipment and supplies. After privatisation they could not afford to buy any materials, sold off most of the machinery and were teaching trades at a desk....
Oh and Deloittes made around half million out of the sale for their advice.....
Redundancy all cancelled as they were broke, in the end I got another job walked out and didn't bother to tell them until the day before I left.


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