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 Political Discussion 
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 Post subject: Political Discussion
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 12:46 am 
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Mod Note: This thread has been split from Private firms are set return to rail maintenance.

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Oh dear the handy word "hate" there dear man!

It still wasn't the very democratic Liberals you mention who created the law on trade unions no matter your emotion. The Liberals were also involved with many money people. Today I would also remind that your emotional side being in full flight is suitably ignorant that the top few percent of the very rich you moan about pay around 23% of the tax income! Another failing from your corner on the first past the poll system is that we had a referendum on that issues and the voters wanted to keep what we have!dear oh dear the emotion al side over-runs the factual side including history old and modern!

Apart fro ignoring the history of the law on Unions and the modern situation you also ignore the matter of when people start to pay tax and that has being going up over the last few years and will reach £12,500 in the near future. Minimum wages going up and will reach £9 an hour and so on. That working class people DO vote Conservative & Unionist is totally side-stepped because it does not fit in with your semi-fanatical political stance. Years ago when Unions were causing strikes for the least wee thing I decided i had enough and when they called a lunch time meeting in my government department social room I and two others from my room decided we were having enough of the constant hassle. Immediately the rabble usual extreme lot chair asked for a proposal to walk out and at lunch time in an hour. A fixed supporter to second it and the chair then said all back to offices till the lunch walk out. I stood up and objected and and there was uproar from the Bolshie cult but I demanded the right of an opinion and a counter-motion and proposed a no walk out. The two fellow workers from my room jumped up to second me and the motley crew got into a furore but we were determined and i argued why on that occasion. So they had to allow a vote (democracy I would remind!) and it worked out about 70%-305 for me. It had it's passing funny moment when one irritated woman said on passing me she had wanted to go get her hair done and another moaned about my alternative stance. Democracy is a word ill-used sometimes! Ever after that until I left for somewhere better when coming round with information to rooms the messenger was a bit more careful and less trident.

Corbyn is a hangover from a past age and he is a nothing really and hi attitude on the long trouble situation were disgusting. If he was so concerned why when seeing one side did he not see the other although the SF were the horrible out in front champs. now he has had to do a dance and say he objected the the "civilians" killed but the soldiers body-swerved. We are all entitled to opinion rights but hating and belligerence is a negative.Thatcher got in for years because people were fed up with the mess the country was run in. Indeed I remember your lefty pals having inflation at 27% and the dead unburied. Working class people do vote Tory and up her in the north of the Kingdom they have returned to places like central Scotland the east end of Glasgow and so on winning Council seats and shoving the lefty lot into third place. I can understand a bit of frustration but it is base wrongly and enhanced by the hard truth that for years the very leftist mindset in general politics is no longer wanted. You would have done well in the second Russian revolution after the 1917 when the Reds did what they did in 1918 but i would probably have sent you a picture of Nicholas 2nd! Regards. ;) 8-)


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 Post subject: Re: Private firms are set return to rail maintenance
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 1:10 am 
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I'll have a pint of whatever you're drinking please Rjhowie :-D


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 Post subject: Re: Private firms are set return to rail maintenance
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 4:53 pm 
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rjhowie wrote:

It still wasn't the very democratic Liberals you mention who created the law on trade unions no matter your emotion.


Well unless you can post anything to back that up, I think you better check 2 facts :-

1. 29 June 1871 — Trade unions legalised by act of parliament.
2. Incumbent Prime Minister — William Ewart Gladstone (Liberal)

Therefore it stands that the laws were brought in under a LIBERAL government.

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 Post subject: Re: Private firms are set return to rail maintenance
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 12:27 am 
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My use of the word "hate", Mr Howie, is inserted purely in the rhetorical sense, I assure you - just as I might say that I hate prawns or some such thing. I am no militant anything and would not (nor ever have done) physically attack anyone, especially for their political belief, and I'm well passed being physically capable of such a thing nowadays anyway.

As blackwatch13 has pointed out to you above, it was indeed the Liberal government of William Gladstone that passed the legislation legalising Trade Unions, not any Tory government. The only thing the Tories brought in for the working classes was the Workhouse - and we all know what charitable institutions they were, don't we? The Tories also imprisoned and executed people for stealing bread when they were starving - including children. How charitable was that ?

Is it any wonder then, my friend, that knowing the history of my ancestors and how they were put to the sword by the very wealthy upper classes of this country in days gone by that I am vociforous in my defence of my own kind? The only people who still gloat about the glory of the British Empire are the descendants of those self same elitist few who were sending our working class children up chimneys and down unsafe mines to die of misery and lung diseases at the same time as they were stealing the assets of all of the countries that our army was conquering - on the orders of the elitists, of course.

Coming back to more modern times, as PFX has kindly pointed out, the national rail companies of half of our European neighbours now run OUR railways and blatantly laugh in our faces when they raise fares before scurrying off home to invest the profits in their own railways. Those self same European nations have, in the fairly recent past, been allowed to buy up all of our main productive industries. These were then cherry picked of all the best bits before being closed down. A great way to get rid of the competition - brilliant bit of thinking that by Thatcher! I think she got a bit confused though. Shouldn't she have been buying THEIR stuff and closing it down? I think you'll also find that in the south of England now most of the Utility Companies are owned by French and Spanish companies. Certainly the water companies anyway.

How these so called politicians constantly get away with blatantly feathering their own nests year after year after year is beyond me. Yes they might be accountable via the ballot box but many of them, in my humble opinion, should be held accountable in a court of law. Still, I doubt any of it will change in MY lifetime.

Dave


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 Post subject: Re: Private firms are set return to rail maintenance
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 4:59 am 
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I would elaborate further blackwatch13 on the confirmation on Trade Unions. It was a Tory Government who set up the Royal Commission on the subject and when they lost the next election then the Liberals who inherited the subject confirmed the legal status so that is a better description than your attempt at propaganda. They did not set up the commissions as explained but could then continue what the Conservatives had started so get it right.

Briggsy. Nice try and dismissing opinion but not very clever just a passing attempt at dismissing opinion.

The comment by PFX does have a point to a degree whilst at the same time either a public body or a private one can apply to run a railway company but no one lot run the whole system. It is still better than the days of British Rail whether those of you with State-running-everything mindsets like it or not. Instead of hanging onto the historical political numbing Briggsy, blackwatch as well as the thread starter (!) they have in practical fact totally ignored my strong point that the railways are for all the challenges running far, far more passengers than the BR days whether they like to admit that or not.

I made the passing point that I have nothing against the principle of Trade unions but there was a time when they thought they would pull the strings of running this country and got dealt with. I vote for councillors, MPs and MSPs to run things. May I also say that membership of the Unions is less than half it was in it's situation a few decades ago. Back when I was in a situation where you had to be in a Union I got out of the political levy and others followed me and I did as indicated play an active part but was glad when they were reminded what system runs the country. They have a part to play and that is it.

We up here north of the Border have been fortunate in line re-openings and would like to see that continuing. The governing lot in Edinburgh on being pressed on whether the Border line would be extended come out with the "possibility" but we shall see! Anyway, i did pass a time being involved in passing with a Trade union run by a group of semi-Marxist weirdos but I practised democracy! Whether tradition lefties like it or not Britain's railways are now doing better and the numbers prove it no matter who ran BR before modern times. Well done!


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 Post subject: Re: Private firms are set return to rail maintenance
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 10:57 am 
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Quote:
The governing lot in Edinburgh on being pressed on whether the Border line would be extended come out with the "possibility" but we shall see!


Don't hold your breath, wee jimmy cranky & her SNP mob are a 1 trick pony, she wants Indy ref 2, ain't gonna happen, so can see her going very soon.
But in the event Westminster agrees to Indy ref 2, how about the English get to vote on it too, it's the only way we can be shot of Scotland & save us some taxpayers cash.

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 Post subject: Re: Private firms are set return to rail maintenance
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 12:09 pm 
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rjhowie wrote:
I would elaborate further blackwatch13 on the confirmation on Trade Unions. It was a Tory Government who set up the Royal Commission on the subject and when they lost the next election then the Liberals who inherited the subject confirmed the legal status so that is a better description than your attempt at propaganda. They did not set up the commissions as explained but could then continue what the Conservatives had started so get it right...

:lol: And a very nice try to smooth over history on your part too, Mr Howie. Why was the Royal Commission set up in the first place? Well, rather than lose face and concede immediate defeat to the rebellious lower classes the Tories palmed things off to this so-called commission. After mercilessly arresting, beating, imprisoning, transporting and killing people for years for trying to organise themselves the Tories realised that the working classes were now actually doing the same (except for transporting, of course) and that a revolution was on the horizon if something wasn't sorted out fairly soon. See Hansard: DISCONTENT AMONG THE WORKING CLASSES http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/comm ... ng-classes

One of the (now) most famous incidents came in 1834 when six farm labourers who were members of the Friendly Society of Agricultural Labourers were arrested and convicted of swearing an oath to an illegal organisation. They were sentenced to 7 years transportation to a penal colony in Australia (and most people died out there and never returned home at all.) Nowadays, most of us know those heroes as the "Tolpuddle Martyrs." That one incident pushed hatred for the rich Tories up a considerable notch (and that was true, venemous hatred, Mr Howie, not my rhetorical kind.) Who was Prime Minister at that time? Oh look, a big fat rich Tory. Lord Melbourne. This man, and I use that term very loosely in his case, was well known for his hatred of Trade Union activities.

May I refer those interested to this very informative article : http://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/Hi ... e-Martyrs/ and I quote from this article a few sentences proclaiming these persons offences:

The labourers were arrested ostensibly for administrating unlawful oaths, but the real reason was because they were trying to protest at their already pitiful wages. The labourers at Tolpuddle lived in meagre poverty on just 7 shillings a week and wanted an increase to 10 shillings, but instead their wages were cut to 6 shillings a week.

What wonderful Tory solution to the problem. However...

The people were incensed at this treatment (the sentences handed down) and after 250,000 people signed a petition and a procession of 30,000 people marched down Whitehall in support of the labourers, the sentences were remitted. After some delay, the the six were given a free passage home from Australia.

The "some delay" no doubt designed to allow the public euphoria over their successful protest to die down and repatriate the labourers with the minimum of fuss and publicity. Thereupon, Mr Howie, after filling their trousers with excrement, the Tories decided that the slowest way to appease the masses and the easiest way for them to sneak out of the limelight unnoticed would be to pass the buck to a commission. At least they could get away with their dirty tricks for a few more years before the commission reported back to Parliament. However, still the wealthy were reluctant to give way: The Letter from Queen Victoria, dated 12 February 1867, appointing the Royal Commission to "inquire into and report on the organisation and rules of the trade unions and other associations...". The Royal Commission produced both Majority Report, with limited proposals to legalise the position of trade unions, and a Minority Report, which recommended complete legalisation. - from TUC. History online.

Finally, in 1871, the Minority Report was accepted by Parliament and Trade Unions were fully legalised. Note The MINORITY Report. Even then these rich Tories couldn't bear to accept defeat and freely allow Trade Unionism.

So you see, Mr Howie, it was far from being because of the great generosity of the Tory party - as you would have us believe - that Trade Unions exist today. What our young people need to wake up to and fully realise is that the Tories will have us back to those times in the blink of an eye if they get even the slightest chance. Anyone who has less than £5 million in the bank and casts their vote for the Tory party is severely deluded IMHO. They care not a jot for anyone but the super rich. Their history is there for all to see.

Oh and DEMOCRACY ? You managed to slide quietly past my comments regarding the democratic vote taken by the WHOLE of the UK (which Scotland is obviously a part of, like it or not) on leaving the EU. You know, the result that Scotland can't accept? Add to that the fact that the SNP can't accept a "NO" vote in an independence referendum either - and now want another shot at it - I don't think Scotland would fill anyone to the brim with confidence in the name of democracy. Mind you, being very Pro-Europe that doesn't surprise me because that's a Brussells trick. Keep re-running the vote until you win - that's the Brussels idea of democracy. Fortunately, the MAJORITY of people in Britain realised that and told them where to stick Brussels!

I think I'll keep the red flag flying here, if you don't mind, Mr Howie.

Dave


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 Post subject: Re: Private firms are set return to rail maintenance
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 4:50 pm 
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I have a feeling that after this election we are going to be left with a political mess.


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 Post subject: Re: Private firms are set return to rail maintenance
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:31 pm 
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I think a mess might be a good outcome, Malc. Total and utter chaos seems to be the only other option :(

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 Post subject: Re: Private firms are set return to rail maintenance
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:38 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Private firms are set return to rail maintenance
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 7:35 pm 
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:lol: :lol: :lol: ...but like the Murphy's, I'm not bitter

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 Post subject: Re: Private firms are set return to rail maintenance
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:40 pm 
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Apologies for the double post but...








Dave :D


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 Post subject: Re: Private firms are set return to rail maintenance
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:46 pm 
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This thread has got too deep into the political side and I would say we all have a right of opinion and the member who queried the way this was morphed into the reddy stuff emphasises that direction. Anyway those of elementary directions can walk about waving a red flag all they like until they mentally grow up. It will not take prominence here. Nationalisation would only add yet another great bill that Corbyn mouths on. The last Lab leader (Michael waffler foot) who tried this stuff got dispensed with. Why is it every time that political corner leaves office the debt is massive?

I knew on growing up I would stop playing at soldiers, cowboys and indians and so on. A return of British Rail would be a farce. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Private firms are set return to rail maintenance
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:01 pm 
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rjhowie wrote:
Why is it every time that political corner leaves office the debt is massive?


Maybe they had to borrow massive amounts of cash to replace what the Tories had ripped from the system to line their own pockets. :|

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 Post subject: Political Discussion
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 3:40 am 
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rjhowie wrote:
Why is it every time that political corner leaves office the debt is massive?


Remind me how big the UKs debt has become again since the Tories came into power?


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