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 Post subject: Re: Political Discussion
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:00 am 
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The problem Theresa May has got is that by using the D.U.P to prop her up she has sold her soul to the devil and it can only end in tears.

For a start, any good will there may have been between the Northern Irish parties when Martin McGuinness and Ian Paisley held the reigns has now completely evaporated. The woman at the head of the DUP is a suspected fraudster accused of lining her mates pockets - how very Tory. She refused to stand aside whilst an investigation was carried out into her activities thus sparking an election in Northern Ireland - again, how very Tory.

Now, by climbing into bed with our Theresa, the D.U.P will completely kill off any hope of Stormont taking up any political role in the forseeable future. Sinn Fein cannot reasonably be expected to accept the British government as a neutral entity in any negotiations between the parties because of the D.U.P's influence in Westminster. That would be a bit like asking your ex-wife to handle your divorce proceedings for you. The Tories have either overlooked this point or - more likely - they are desperate to hang onto power so that they can milk the taxpayer a little while longer and shift their assets safely abroad before a Labour government takes control.

Next, the D.U.P directly opposes Tory beliefs on gay rights, abortion, Brexit and half a million other things. What has our Theresa got to give them to keep them onside and how soon will they throw their toys out of the pram when the lying Tories inevitably renege on the deal? (which we all know they will at the first sign of things not going their way.)

Then there's the fact that any party can call a vote of no confidence in this government(?) at any time. If the Tory/D.U.P side lost such a vote they would then have 14 days to arrange another vote in the House of Commons which they would have to win or resign.

There is, of course, also the fact that the Tories will not dare to bring anything even remotely contentious near Parliament now because they know that there's the strongest possible likelihood that they would not get it through a vote. Thus they will be walking on eggshells each and every day until such time as the house inevitably comes crashing down. The sooner it does the better it will be for everyone because this government cannot achieve ANYTHING other than to vainly hang onto control of the Commons for the time being (how very Tory.)

Cheers :D

Dave


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 Post subject: Re: Political Discussion
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:00 pm 
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Already 360,000 people have signed a petition to stop Conservative plans to join forces with the DUP.

No one has thought about a Tory coalition with labour! :twisted:


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 Post subject: Re: Political Discussion
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:33 pm 
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clam1952 wrote:
...No one has thought about a Tory coalition with labour! :twisted:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Now that'd be fun :lol:

Dave


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 Post subject: Re: Political Discussion
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 6:00 pm 
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cyberdonblue wrote:
The Tories have either overlooked this point or - more likely - they are desperate to hang onto power so that they can milk the taxpayer a little while longer and shift their assets safely abroad before a Labour government takes control.


Sadly, this is the truth of it.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Discussion
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 7:54 pm 
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They can't really have a vote of no confidence as the other parties would just lose. The government with their DUP 'friends' have a majority now. Plus when they say 326 seats it's not quite that high, because Sinn Fein never take their place in the Commons so that's now seven less on the opposition benches. I know there was this whole wave of new hope about Corbyn and the young just hung on his every world. Mainly because they weren't around for the winter of discontent or when the Unions had this country by the balls. Fair play to Corbyn he promised everything to the masses with give away's to just about every quarter of society but he was still 60+ seats short, add to that May's terrible performance and really it was a very swallow victory for Labour to say the least.
What is the most ironic thing of this election was Mrs Sturgeon's campaign which was even worse than Mrs May's. There was she thinking she was going to be King maker and get a spare room in number 10, becoming a big player in this 'Progressive Alliance' they were all talking about. In the end what she actually did was save May's bacon. with her being hell bent on 'Indyref2' she ended up driving a ton of voters to the Tories. After all I'm sure nobody put money on the Tories taking 12 seats North of the border and those 12 unexpected seats keep May at number 10 (for now). Hats off also to Ruth Davidson she also did a cracking job and I'm sure her stock within the Tory party has now gone through the roof.
So what happens now.......May will stay in charge for maybe 6 months and step aside once the dust has settled. As for Labour, well those like Yvette Cooper and Chuka Umanna have no real chance of ousting Mr C now and will just have to put up or shut up because I'm sure he and McDonnell will carry on for a while longer yet. Will they drag Labour even more to the left over the coming years, well that's to be seen.
The Lib Dems, well they might as well just give up, their leader only just keep his seat and Clegg lost his. Plus they only gained a few extra seats even with the country in political turmoil and the promise to give the country a second Brexit vote. As for UKIP it seems their days are numbered and support has all but gone. They have certainly played their part over the last 10 years especially Farage, who I'm sure in years to come will be studied greatly in political history as the man that opened this whole can of worms in the fist place, almost a 21st century Enoch Powell.
The one thing that did make me laugh as a 'Train spotter' A title often given to me by my friends was the the fact that most said to me during the election "Surely you want to see the Railways renationalised?"........Uh actually no!!!!


Last edited by fudginator on Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Discussion
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:26 pm 
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fudginator wrote:
They can't really have a vote of no confidence as the other parties would just lose. The government with their DUP 'friends' have a majority now.


But the majority is slim - and the Tories have some rebels. A few already expressed anger for May calling a general election when there was no need to. There's also the remainers that don't want the type of Brexit that May has said she'll deliver.

The Tories already had to give in to pushing some laws through during the last parliament, with a bigger majority, because opposition MPs voted against, plus some of her own MPs voted against.

You only have to look at the Tory leadership challenge last year to see that some Tory MPs have no issue in stabbing their own MPs in the back for their own gain.

The DUP will also want deals for supporting the Tories. If they don't get what they want as part of the agreement, those "friends" could soon stop providing support.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Discussion
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 10:34 pm 
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I pity all you who live in the UK, this is what you will have to put up with for the foreseeable future:

https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18922098_10154518668202050_8169142114798693147_n.jpg?oh=60ac7b57ea48f6a748b1004715bb6bc9&oe=59D788C7


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 Post subject: Re: Political Discussion
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:27 pm 
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All parties have rebels and vote against certain bills. What they won't do is vote their party out of power. They may very well go for a change of leader, but not a vote of No confidence, because then that's another general election. Plus if Corbyn's band wagon keeps rolling along, they could in turn not only put themselves out of power, but a job altogether if they don't get re-elected. It's seem more and more that the country is changing and there seems to be far fewer truly safe seats anymore. Just look at this election, political powerhouse Alex Salmond lost his seat and so did former Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg. Even the SNP leader in the House of Commons got sent packing, with Amber Rudd the Home Secretary and Tim Farron holding on by the skin of their teeth.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Discussion
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:51 pm 
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fudginator wrote:
...I know there was this whole wave of new hope about Corbyn and the young just hung on his every world [sic]. Mainly because they weren't around for the winter of discontent...
I think you'll find the biggest "Winter of discontent" was when Ted Heath (Tory) was Prime Minister in the early 70's. The miners went on strike and we had power cuts on a rota basis until the government eventually collapsed and we had a general election which saw the Tories ousted in favour of a Labour government.

Sadly, just a few years later, though, we then had the unfortunate incident of the Unions bringing down a Labour government too. This was because, after 3 or 4 years of co-operation with regard to wage restraint and little or no pay rises, some Unions felt that Jim Callaghan, the Labour Prime Minister at the time, had betrayed them by enforcing yet more wage restraint; which they felt was going back on the original deal. Personally, I found that act very sad because we were all just beginning to once again feel the value of the money in our pockets. Just one more year of restraint would have seen us in a good place, but some people were just too impatient. The trouble is, they unwittingly held the door open for Thatcher.

It was Thatcher's obsession with smashing the Unions that actually smashed this country as a manufacturing base and turned it into the waste pit that it now is. That was in the early 1980's and Britain still hasn't shown any signs of rebuilding in any way, shape or form - nor will we ever under a Tory government because they don't give a hoot about industry (mainly because most of them are well rewarded on the board of one or more of the multi-national global concerns.) Yes, fudginator, things are changing in this country - at last. The young are waking up and realising that they have a voice. A say in what the future holds for them. And it's quite apparent that they're not too impressed with the Tories vision of future Britain.

I don't think Corbyn is trying to con anyone - young or old - but merely saying that, with interest rates at record lows as they are now, we'd be foolish not to borrow now and put ourselves back on the map as manufacturers. We should spend money on the young to guarantee them a future with a worthwhile job and a decent income. Train them, teach them the skills that have been lost for too many years.

The Tory alternative is to keep people untrained and uneducated and to keep wiping Europe's arse whilst we rely on all the shit we collect from them to just about get by.

Cheers

Dave


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 Post subject: Re: Political Discussion
PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 2:20 am 
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cyberdonblue wrote:
The young are waking up and realising that they have a voice. A say in what the future holds for them. And it's quite apparent that they're not too impressed with the Tories vision of future Britain.


I'm 21, and for the first time due to the Tories targeting my constituency and failing, it felt like I had a valid say through voting that genuinely mean't something. While I can't speak for everyone my age, and I do know a handful who voted Tory, we generally are not a fan of the policies that were put forward at all, never mind the leadership. Her stance on encryption and internet regulation do not sit right with me in any shape or form either as a computer science student, Theresa May strikes me as out of touch with the modern world.

Two months ago however I developed pneumonia, and my experience with the NHS was depressing. The staff were overworked and lacked the equipment and facilities they needed, it wasn't a sight I was happy to see, and another 5 years of Tory government was not something I would support given they have had 7 as it stands, and achieved nothing other than dividing the country on numerous issues.

Jack

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 Post subject: Re: Private firms are set return to rail maintenance
PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 2:46 am 
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Look Lenin,

I fought in a union as I said many years ago against the very people like yourself and you are bordering on the silly. You totally ignore what you are being told because it dies not suit you; You have completely ignored the fact of life in that the Tories have increased the minimum wage and will go up to £9. They increased when you star paying tax and will reach £12,500. that food banks existed under Labour rule.

Corbyn increased your vote because of the young surge but they tend to be traditionally radical and eventually grow up (so catch up boy). Theresa May total votes have increased they are nearly 60 MP's above Corbyn who will never be a PM. He had the sheer stupidity of thinking he could be Pm with a motley crowd of other non-Labour corners. Labour in the past have had minority governments and something lse you tend to body swerve. Corbyn stuck his nose in the troubles across the Irish Sea and only picked ONE side to talk to onhis rubbish about improving things. He said after being hard pressed that it was sad that so many died as they were civilians but it was okay for police and our soldiers. You really are making a damn fool of yourself. You have warped Scotland as well and may I remind you that Labour is supposed to be a unionist party too but the Tories overtook them. Your corner got 7 MP's but the Tories 13.In your habt of ingoring the facts that I give you think you can just passingly guff about the Tories only doing well up here because of the idea of Indy2. Your pal Corbyn swung two different ways on the idea of Scots independence and typically in your ignoring of the hard facts I have quoted you also ignored the other hard truth that in the Local Council Elections the Tories shoved Labour downhill there too and especially I mentioned the Tories taking Council wins in traditional working class areas. Labour couldn't keep up with the Scots Tories either in the local Election or the UK one.

The rubbish that Corbyn has been some kind of hero is laughable and immature. He will never reach the number of MPs the Tories have UK wide and he and that idiot Abbot he has as Shadow Foreign Secretary are a laugh. You re scores o seats behind May and will never reach the number of seats she has. You can ignore the factual truths I have stated and have had to repeat due to your ignoring of the hard obvious.


Finally I doubt if Labour will ever get over 300 MP's and you have to try and exist on the mindsets of the young but do try and grow up politically. You have been unable to answer my truth about the issues above. Wave your red flag all you want but I gave up playing solders or cowboys and indians decades ago.

I am flying the Union Flag and sticking to the adult world. 8-)


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 Post subject: Re: Private firms are set return to rail maintenance
PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:10 am 
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rjhowie wrote:
I am flying the Union Flag and sticking to the adult world. 8-)


No you're not, you're being childish, patronising and rude.

Debates are fine - but don't resort to patronising, condescending and insulting comments just because your opinion differs to others.

Go and have a lay down for a bit and come back after your ban expires in 24 hours time. You're then welcome to come back with a politer, more mature tone.


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 Post subject: Re: Private firms are set return to rail maintenance
PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 2:39 pm 
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My dear Mr Howie, I won't be too contentious whilst you are unable to reply but I think that many of your accusations about not listening to your points actually apply very firmly to you yourself.

Furthermore, your Tory friends keep altering the electoral boundaries to cheat their way into power and make it look like they're very popular; as well as using the press to smear any opposition with lies after lies after lies.

Thatcher unspeakably altered the Shire boundaries that had existed for hundreds of years and were a glowing tribute to British social history. And she did so with such drastic fervour solely to enable her to be able to invent new Tory biased areas in new dreamt up counties like the West Midlands for one, which was previously mostly working class Warwickshire only now it had some of the more salubrious Tory bits of South Staffordshire and one or two other "wealthier" places glued on to dilute the Labour vote. How democratic is that? And that happened ALL OVER the country to satisfy the Tory lust for power!

So don't talk to me about poular Tory policies or getting the most seats in Parliament, Mr Howie. The Tories are sh*t scared of proportional representation. They'll fight it to the death. Why? Because they know they'd never get one of their mob within 200 miles of 10 Downing Street EVER AGAIN if that system came in. (And I am not making a case here for or against it.)

Unfortunately for you, Mr Howie, I think Mr Corbyn will be very soon be checking out the armchairs for size at number 10 whilst our Theresa slinks off into retirement with her questionably obtained assets (which I'm sure will rapidly disappear abroad into a quickly organised "investment" opportunity.)

And on the Sinn Fein point? British governments - despite what they say in the lying press - have only ever negotiated with "Terrorists." Have a look at the history of places like India, Egypt (and the calamitous Suez crisis) Israel or any of the African Commonwealth countries they "gave back" after they'd raped and pillaged the resources they used to have in many of those places. Nelson Mandella - so glowingly spoken about in the lying Tory press in recent years - was a "terrorist" according to the British government as was Mahatma Ghandi. Several Israeli "terrorists" later became Israeli Prime Ministers and were warmly greeted by British governments here in London. Should I go on?

How many of those points will you take on board, Mr Howie? I'm prepared to gamble on a whopping zero

Regards

Karl Marx ...er sorry, Dave ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Political Discussion
PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:23 pm 
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Well said, Jack. It's so nice to hear the views of a young gentleman who is looking at the world for himself and saying, "This isn't right. What can I do about it?" For too long apathy has been allowed to rule in this country; now at last, it seems that the people are beginning to stir once again.

Many people would say that Labour didn't do much in all the Blairite years - and they'd be right too. But what they have either forgotten, or don't realise at all, is that Blair is a Tory. He comes from a fairly wealthy Tory family. His mom and dad are Tories and he made the Tories unelectable for all those years because he was doing the Tory job FOR them - and they loved it.

The Tory press are "moaning" that we've gone back to the 2 party state (and they're worried) but that's because the British people are realising that the only way to get the Tories out is to vote for the only other realistic mainstream option that there is. To vote for one of those other small parties is a waste because that vote just gets lost among the also rans whilst the Tories all stick together (lining each others pockets.)

The only way to change politics and policies is to get involved. For years I got involved in tea break arguments in the messroom at work caused by people moaning about the Union doing this or the Union doing that. My first question to them was usually, "Where were you when this topic was listed for discussion at the Branch Meeting and your opinions on the subject were being sought?" Their arguments died there and then. If you don't turn up at meetings or polling stations and you don't bother to vote how can you have any argument about the outcome? Fairy Godmothers don't exist and there's no such thing as magic.

There are no rewards for ANYTHING in life if you don't put the effort in, and the more effort you put in the more reward you will get back. Ask some of our content creators around here.

Stay strong Jack and encourage your fellow young folk to join you in whatever you all collectively truly believe to be the right way. Follow that path and you'll all reap your rewards.

Cheers

Dave


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 Post subject: Re: Political Discussion
PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:41 pm 
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The only way to change politics and policies is to get involved. For years I got involved in tea break arguments in the messroom at work caused by people moaning about the Union doing this or the Union doing that. My first question to them was usually, "Where were you when this topic was listed for discussion at the Branch Meeting and your opinions on the subject were being sought?" Their arguments died there and then. If you don't turn up at meetings or polling stations and you don't bother to vote how can you have any argument about the outcome? Fairy Godmothers don't exist and there's no such thing as magic.


Exactly in my 20+ Years as a Union Rep, Branch Chair, Secretary etc it was always those who never attended meetings or bothered to vote on anything that moaned the most!


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