Track endcaps

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cyberdonblue
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Track endcaps

Post by cyberdonblue »

Could anybody in this neck of the woods shine any light on this problem? It is causing quite a few problems for me on my W.I.P and poor old David Bird can't seem to fathom it out himself either. He's asked the question on the main forum a while back but got the stunning total of ZERO replies. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated by both of us, I'm sure.

David's Original Post from the main forum:

I have a range of bridge abutment objects that are constructed as scenery objects with attached tracks. The tracks are made to be updatable to the user's choice of track.

I have just become aware that when 3rd-rail electrified tracks are used, the conductor rail end ramps, which are modeled within the endcaps of the track spline, are actually displayed on both the attached spline track segment, and the track segment within the object. See the centre of this image.


Image


Is it possible, within the config file of the scenery object, to supress this display of the endcaps, so I do not get the overlap of conductor rail ramps?

Thanks


Many thanks in advance.

Cheers

(cyberdonblue) Dave
clam1952
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Re: Track endcaps

Post by clam1952 »

One good reason for not using endcaps!
Questions:
Is this is pro track?
What's the kuid?
Are the end caps corresponding to attachment points on the embankment spline?
Cheers

Malc

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cyberdonblue
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Re: Track endcaps

Post by cyberdonblue »

I can answer the first two Malc but you'll need to get David to answer the last one. Yes, it's Andy Smith's Protrack:

Protrack F Grit/Dark Timber 3rd Rail kuid:122285:100070 & Protrack F Grit/Concrete 3rd Rail kuid:122285:80110

and

Protrack F Grit/Concrete 4th Rail kuid:122285:80111 & Protrack F Grit/Dark Timber 4th Rail kuid:122285:100044

David's bridge assets can be found with a search for DJBUK.

Cheers

Dave
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Re: Track endcaps

Post by clam1952 »

Had a feeling those were the Tracks, bad news is the track is faulty in the current beta 93104 and although not showing as faulty doesn't display at all in SP2 90955 here.

Code: Select all

; <kuid:122285:80110> Validating <kuid:122285:80110>
; <NULL> Performing asset precache
; <kuid:122285:80110> Loading asset <kuid:122285:80110>
- <kuid:122285:80110> SplineSpec29ProceduralTrack::LoadMeshData> Impossible to load Left Rail Meshes
- <kuid:122285:80110> VE199: Asset <kuid:122285:80110> failed to load. Unloading resources.
; <kuid:122285:80110> TADGetSpecFromAsset> unlinked asset
There is a similar problem with scotish's Narrow Gauge track which I believe uses the same workround as Andi's 3rd rail for adding fishplates, reason is there is a limit to how many attached splines you can use with protrack which appears to be 5, Andi has 6, Dan (scottish) has 7 both have exceeded the "limit" and it probably shouldn't have worked and may well account for the end cap problem. The NG track can't load rail left and right, temporary fix for the NG problem is delete the fishplates from the config.

Before working out how to fix the problem it needs N3V to confirm that the limit is fixed, or work out some other way to attach the third rail or in the other case fishplates.

General consensus is the additional attached track was not documented in the wiki under pro track, so it shouldn't have been used as getting into the problems of the past with using undocumented features that shouldn't actually work but do and then cause faults in a higher build.
In the case of Andi's track it's not likely to get fixed neither is the end cap which should not be used for a rail

Meanwhile, I'm in the process of moving to Crewe so may not be able to do much Trainz related stuff for a week or so.
Cheers

Malc

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Re: Track endcaps

Post by cyberdonblue »

Thanks Malc. Looks like I'm up Sh*t Creek without a paddle then. Just my luck. :( I'll have to stop scratching my backside and make a decision about where I go from here now I suppose. This kind of thing doesn't exactly inspire, does it? Thanks for the info though Malc. I much appreciate it. Surely N3V should pull stuff like that though if it is known to contravene its content creation rules - even if it is working currently. Like you say, it just stores up trouble for the future when they just let things "roll on." Oh well, back to the drawing board.

Cheers

Dave

P.S. Just as an after-thought, Malc; do you know if the 3rd and 4th rail stuff by Scottish works in the latest beta?

Thanks :)
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Re: Track endcaps

Post by clam1952 »

cyberdonblue wrote:Thanks Malc. Looks like I'm up Sh*t Creek without a paddle then. Just my luck. :( I'll have to stop scratching my backside and make a decision about where I go from here now I suppose. This kind of thing doesn't exactly inspire, does it? Thanks for the info though Malc. I much appreciate it. Surely N3V should pull stuff like that though if it is known to contravene its content creation rules - even if it is working currently. Like you say, it just stores up trouble for the future when they just let things "roll on." Oh well, back to the drawing board.

Cheers

Dave

P.S. Just as an after-thought, Malc; do you know if the 3rd and 4th rail stuff by Scottish works in the latest beta?

Thanks :)

Can't find any 4th rail by Dan, 3rd rail however does work, he's used a different method and made the left or right rails to include the 3rd rail which does work ok in the latest beta as there are no extra attached items and it won't have the endcap issue.
Cheers

Malc

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Re: Track endcaps

Post by davidbird »

Solved it... sort of...

The 3rd rail track is actually a standard protrack, but with an added spline for the 3rd rail. I have cloned the track, and also cloned the added conductor rail spline, simply deleted the reference to the endcaps in the config of the conductor rail and changed the reference in the track's config to point to my new conductor rail spline.

Now, when a 3rd (or 4th rail) track is added to a scenery-object-with-added-track the conductor rail ramps do not appear to overlap.
The problem now is that they also do not appear when you do need them to, where the conductor rail swaps sides...

In this image, I have used a 4track waygauge so the ends of the object are visible. The foreground track is my new no-endcaps-on-conductor-rail track, the 2nd track is Andi's original 3rd rail.

What do you think?

Image
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Re: Track endcaps

Post by clam1952 »

I've raised a bug report for the errors in the Beta for andi's and Dans track and included the error reports, hopefully this will get it sorted, fingers crossed.

Dave, regarding your problem, I was going to suggest that as a possible workround, alternatively changing the length of the end cap to 0.01 should work.

When I've finished moving and got everything set up at Crewe, I'll have a proper look and see if there is a simple solution as to why the endcaps are appearing in the middle of a spline.

Malc
Cheers

Malc

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Re: Track endcaps

Post by davidbird »

I'm now thinking of conductor rail endcaps meshes, on their own, as clipon trackside objects, to be slid into place where needed?
Does that sound reasonable?
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Re: Track endcaps

Post by clam1952 »

davidbird wrote:I'm now thinking of conductor rail endcaps meshes, on their own, as clipon trackside objects, to be slid into place where needed?
Does that sound reasonable?
Sound very reasonable, I use Trackside assets for all sorts of things!
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Re: Track endcaps

Post by cyberdonblue »

So will this track 3rd and fourth rail track now appear in the latest beta Malc or does that problem still exist? Does Andi's protrack need major surgery still or will David's trick cure the problem?
davidbird wrote:I'm now thinking of conductor rail endcaps meshes, on their own, as clipon trackside objects, to be slid into place where needed?
Does that sound reasonable?
That sounds like a great idea David. It will certainly help towards getting round the "too many attached splines problem." Still not sure how all this sits with the latest beta though. Will it work in the upcoming SP3 or will I have to change everything?

Thanks for all the work you've both done trying to sort this though. Good luck with your move, Malc.

Cheers

Dave
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Re: Track endcaps

Post by clam1952 »

Afraid Andi's track won't work in the beta, different problem to the endcaps and they will remain faulty unless N3V act on the bug report I submitted, I did explain that it seemed to due to exceeding 5 attached splines which wasn't a problem previously.

While I was typing this I got an acknowledgement from N3V, they have been able to verify the faulty problem, as it was an unusually quick response, hopefully we can expect a fix, fingers crossed!

Malc
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Re: Track endcaps

Post by davidbird »

Malc, can you please confirm if I'm understanding this correctly.
Andi06's Protrack with 3rd & 4th rail does not work in the current SP3 beta, but the standard, non-electrified, track does work.
If that is the case, then there is no point in me progressing any further with the no-endcaps-conductor-rail and clipon ramps.

Having said that, it should be possible to just use the (original) conductor rail spline as a stand-alone scenery spline object, with standard track. This avoids all problems with endcaps appearing where they aren't wanted, but at the cost of being a lot more fiddly to set up.
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Re: Track endcaps

Post by clam1952 »

Normal protrack, Andi's or any one else's is fine, ones with 6 or 7 attached splines are currently faulty, as from my previous post it's been acknowledged and verified as a problem and assigned a bug number, I would presume it will get fixed or it wouldn't have been given a number, hopefully in the next beta update.

Meanwhile I would carry on with your modification for the end cap problem but maybe hold of putting them on the DLS until confirmed it is fixed.

Malc
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Re: Track endcaps

Post by cyberdonblue »

It would be nice if N3V could put it right - as a tribute to Andi and all he did for Trainz as much as anything else. I'll hold off making any wholesale changes to my W.I.P until we see what develops. Thanks again to both of you for following this up.

Cheers

Dave
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