Class 158 Info

General Trainz discussion and questions.
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Briggsy
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Re: Class 158 Info

Post by Briggsy »

cyberdonblue wrote:
Briggsy wrote:Looks fantastic!

Will you be doing a Central Trains version with dirty tables, wonky arm rest, 'I h8 Villa' etched into the back of a seat and chewing gum stuck to the carpet?
:lol: ...and don't forget the big smelly "jobbie" blocking the toilet with loads of soggy toilet paper littering the floor to operate on late evening services :lol:

Cheers


Dave :D
You seem to know a lot of detail about that incident. It was you, wasn't it? :P
Marky7890 wrote:
Briggsy wrote:Looks fantastic!

Will you be doing a Central Trains version with dirty tables, wonky arm rest, 'I h8 Villa' etched into the back of a seat and chewing gum stuck to the carpet?
No "does it tilt" comment? Shocking :o :lol:

Mark
Now you're just being daft. Everyone knows the 158 doesn't tilt. What sort of plonker asks if everything tilts? :shock: :P
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cyberdonblue
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Re: Class 158 Info

Post by cyberdonblue »

Briggsy wrote:
cyberdonblue wrote: :lol: ...and don't forget the big smelly "jobbie" blocking the toilet with loads of soggy toilet paper littering the floor to operate on late evening services :lol:

Cheers


Dave :D
You seem to know a lot of detail about that incident. It was you, wasn't it? :P
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Dave :D
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Re: Class 158 Info

Post by bj1888 »

Trainz@Bristol18 wrote:This 158 creation looks absolutely fantastic! When will the Pay ware be available? If you don't mind me asking?
Thanks.

I'm not sure. I thought I would have had it finished ages ago :). Adding the passenger interior took longer than I thought it would and it always surprises me how many little things there are still to do.
Lately I've also been making some changes to the scripts and there is still more to do there as well.

For now all I can say is it's progressing well enough, albeit a little slowly.


Brendan
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Re: Class 158 Info

Post by bj1888 »

evertrainz wrote:Wow, that looks amazing!

As does the route - is it a WIP, if I may ask? The route looks detailed like something that may be out of DTG's train sim, if that makes sense.
Thanks.

The route is from the Glasgow route I mentioned in the post above about splines.

I wouldn't call it a WIP at this point though as I stopped working on it some time ago because working with splines felt like torture. That section in the screenshot is the area around Newton Train Station which included a custom built main station building, footbridge, platform and part of the underpass. Some other things I had been working on for it were the beginnings of a new UK road system that would allow you to create seamless junctions and connections to different road types and then there were house splines with gardens. With these things I could make entire housing estates very quickly. What I was trying to do was see if it would be possible to create an accurate version of the real world route with custom content for the main features of the route and based on what I had done I 'd be confident it is doable. I would like to get back to it eventually so hopefully N3V fix all the issues with splines at some point.

One thing I'm sure of though is that Trainz could look just as good if not better than any DTG train sim.

Brendan
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Re: Class 158 Info

Post by bj1888 »

Nexusdj wrote:The 158 interior looks superb :D

Track alterations on an existing route :
I've always found it easier to raise the ground up underneath to the required track level , complete the track layout . Create new layer for catenary and then lock track layer . Complete catenary then lock that layer and unlock track . Signal placement can be tricky sometimes under catenary so I simply turn off the visibility of the catenary layer and place signals , switching on and off the (catenary layer) visibility as I work along to avoid clashes with OHLE masts and gantries . I've even go further by placing the overhead gantry splines and or Headspans in another layer . Once complete I return the ground to original level having made notes if necessary of the original heights before starting to help .

Obviously easiest solution is to plan ahead and get all the track work done first followed by signals , speeds , platforms and catenary using layers where necessary , Then sort the scenery . At least you can have some trains running at that stage for some extra motivation ;)
Yeah that's actually quite similar to the technique I was using on the little sections I had done but raising the ground is such a destructive thing to do as you can never get it back to exactly how it should be. It's also something that would be tricky to do with Glasgow Central Station itself as it would rise up with the ground as well but it has attached track as a guide for the rest of the track so it needs to stay in the right place. And you just know as soon as you put the ground back to normal you'll find a section that needs more adjusting and you're back to square one.

Keeping catenary and signalling on separate layers was also something I was doing. More so as a long term plan to be able to hide them and make things easier to take the route back in time.

It's not just track though and raised splines are not the only issue. It's roads and houses and gardens and walls etc. There are plenty of places where I'm trying to place a spline above another spline, or an object, and to place the spline in the right place you need the other spline as a reference so hiding the object/spline or raising the ground are not options.
It's not being able to straighten a spline when it uses an attached spline.
It's not being able to see spline circles at all if you try to attach a track spline to a normal spline, something I was doing to make it easy to place street lights along a roadside.
It's when you have dozens of splines closely packed together and you constantly click on the wrong one when trying to adjust it.

Excuses, excuses. :) I suppose I should just suck it up and get on with it but it's time consuming enough making a route without all the endless faffing about trying to work around problems that n3v could fix in no time but have ignored for years.


Anyway, when I finish this 158 I'll probably take another look at this and see if your tips make things easier.

Thanks,
Brendan
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Re: Class 158 Info

Post by bj1888 »

gds wrote:Incredible work. Just shows the potential of the new Trainz engine.
Thanks. It's not the new engine though, it's T:ANE. :shock: :) In fact because T:ANE has custom reflections materials and TRS19 doesn't the interior will always look better in T:ANE.

Brendan
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Re: Class 158 Info

Post by bj1888 »

paulper wrote:Crikey. Never seen an interior like it. Great work!
Thanks.
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Re: Class 158 Info

Post by bj1888 »

cyberdonblue wrote:
Briggsy wrote:Looks fantastic!

Will you be doing a Central Trains version with dirty tables, wonky arm rest, 'I h8 Villa' etched into the back of a seat and chewing gum stuck to the carpet?
:lol: ...and don't forget the big smelly "jobbie" blocking the toilet with loads of soggy toilet paper littering the floor to operate on late evening services :lol:

Cheers


Dave :D
:lol: I think I could manage some dirty tables or a wonky arm rest, etc... I'm not sure my 3d modelling skills are up to a big smelly jobbie though. I wonder if there's a youtube tutorial on how to make one. ;)


Brendan
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Re: Class 158 Info

Post by bj1888 »

Briggsy wrote:
Now you're just being daft. Everyone knows the 158 doesn't tilt. What sort of plonker asks if everything tilts? :shock: :P
Ya what!! :roll: Of course it tilts. :P
tilt_158.jpg
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Briggsy
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Re: Class 158 Info

Post by Briggsy »

YESSSSS! Just what we've always been after in Trainz (tilt - not a big smelly jobbie :evil: ).
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Re: Class 158 Info

Post by Mightyena »

Briggsy wrote:YESSSSS! Just what we've always been after in Trainz (tilt - not a big smelly jobbie :evil: ).
I mean the N3V forums does a pretty good job of approximating one of those sometimes...
James M, creator of the
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Re: Class 158 Info

Post by bj1888 »

Still chippin' away at this. I've been making lots of little adjustments to the cab, which meant re-baking most of the textures, and I finally got around to tackling the right side of the cab, details of which have been hard to come by but hopefully it's close enough.

One thing I could never figure out was how the cab door worked. I finally came to the conclusion that it is offset to the right from the middle of the cab and it can possibly open fully both ways. I really , really, really hope that's right. ;)

Then there's that weird shaped door at the front of the cab. I'm guessing that there is actually some kind of double door on the outside. Would that be right?

Brendan

The driver has a nice new comfy chair. It looks like it's a bit of a tight squeeze to get into mind.
Image

The right hand side of the cab.
Image

Image

Image

And a couple of new liveries from Wales.
Image
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Re: Class 158 Info

Post by Marky7890 »

Fantastic work again. Strangely enough I was thinking last night I wonder how this project is going!

Mark
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Re: Class 158 Info

Post by cyberdonblue »

bj1888 wrote: ...One thing I could never figure out was how the cab door worked. I finally came to the conclusion that it is offset to the right from the middle of the cab and it can possibly open fully both ways. I really , really, really hope that's right. ;)

Then there's that weird shaped door at the front of the cab. I'm guessing that there is actually some kind of double door on the outside. Would that be right?

Brendan
Hi Brendan; I'd like to offer a little advice for you using your pictures, if I may. The first bit of information, however, is that the door from the cab to the passenger compartment is centrally placed and it opens both ways, as you suspected; although opening the door outwards was frowned upon incase you clattered a passenger standing on the other side. In reality, this area was usually full of passengers and their luggage so opening the door outwards was impossible. It was a pure nightmare when you had to leave the Unit to use an SPT. You had to warn passengers to stand away from the doorway then open the door from inside the cab and hope that no one fell out (passengers can be extremely stupid and often fall over/out when least expected.)

This door can also be locked using a BR1 key. The reason why should become clearer as we progress.

Image

The red circle in the first picture highlights a spring loaded catch for securing that "wierd shaped door at the front of the cab," when it is opened. It's very solid and secure.
There is also a hinged metal bar/pole hanging out of sight here. This attaches to the rear bulkhead during multiple working and acts as a support or strengthener.


In the picture below the red arrow is pointing to a very solid "U" bolt buried into that front door. This is the bolt that secures the door to the spring loaded catch in the above picture.

Image

Image

Although not visible in your pictures, these Units had 3 very poor and flimsy securing points somewhere near to the locations roughly pointed to on this bulkhead.

OK, so now let me go through the coupling procedure for multiple working and the bits I've pointed out should then make more sense.

Once physically coupled the driver does a pull-test (to ensure a firm and secure coupling.) This done he will then press the couple button (supposedly for 3 seconds but experience tells you to listen to what's happening.) When he's done that, he'll move the reverser to forward/reverse and make sure that the brakes release. Once satisfied that all is in order it is now time to ensure that the practice of ingress and egress between Units becomes available to passengers.

Step 1 involves unlocking the front central door on the cab you are currently in. This involves the use of a T- Key or Carriage Key (there is a difference.) The lock looks like a square hole just below the door handle (see picture 2) - and just above the "U" bolt (early versions had 3 locks to undo: top, middle and bottom.)

Step 2. Open the door, step aside and close it against the spring loaded catch (as seen in picture 1.) You are now faced with two big yellow doors covered in a trillion dead flies :lol:

Step 3. Begin scraping all the flies off... :lol: No, that's not happening, is it?

Step 3. Secure the support bar/pole on the D/A side to the rear bulkhead. I honestly can't remember how we did this part though as it was a much later addition to the procedure. I think it just slotted into place but I'll stand correcting if anyone knows better.


Step 4. On the outside of these hefty central doors (and believe me, they are heavy) is a double hinged, double skinned clear perspex cover. A T-Key or Carriage Key unlocks this hinged cover and it opens out like two perspex doors to block off the cab space on the D/A side of the cab. The bar/pole mentioned in step 3 acts as a support incase anyone leans against the perspex screen. Not a good idea though because one of these skins is actually covered in dead flies. Not a very well thought out design. This perspex cover is then secured with a T Key/Carriage Key at the 3 points alluded to in picture 3. That's step 4 complete.

You would then attempt to unlock the middle door of the newly coupled Unit from the outside or gangway you were standing in so as to gain entry to that said Unit. I say attempt because it was very often damn hard to say the least and nigh on impossible more times that I'd care to remember. It would certainly NOT be an exercise even attempted with a T-Key. A Carriage Key would be essential, and I've even twisted a few of those in the process. Anyway, assuming you got the door open without problem you would then repeat steps 1 to 4 again. Once this was done, you would then extinguish all front/tail lights and cab lights, close BOTH central cab doors and lock them with a BR1 key thus securing them out of harms way. The train is now ready to accept passengers and go on its way.

I hope that's of help, Brendan.

Cheers

Dave :D
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Re: Class 158 Info

Post by bj1888 »

Hey Dave, thanks for your detailed reply. It's given me a much better understanding of that section of the train.

I've been away from this for a bit but I've now made some updates to the outer gangway door based on what you've said.

This is what it looks like now. I'm wondering though if the two fly doors may actually be locked/connected together and normally open/close as one rather than how I've made it?
cab_model.jpg
Anyway, your explanation about how those doors work was a great help and it was something I was intending to ask about. For a long time, based on photos I'd seen, I thought the older 158's had an outer door with an elongated window but I'm now thinking the outside of the main door was sometimes just partly painted black to look that way and the perspex just made it look more like a window, at least when you could see it through the flies. :lol:

Also, in the older trains I'm guessing both the fly doors were perspex whereas these days the outer fly door is usually metal. I have these doors modelled at 1cm deep but I suspect they are much thinner than that as they still look too thick. They must be pretty flimsy regardless.



As for the cabin door. I have tried everything I can think of to get things to fit with the door in the centre but no matter what it just doesn't look right. The problem is the angled panel to the right hand side of the driver ends up far too short or too straight compared to photos if I move the door further left than it currently is.

Now, while looking into your explanation of the gangway door I came across this image which makes me think the way I have the cab door is ok as it actually looks pretty similar to how I have it so I may just leave it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gangway_c ... in_use.jpg

cyberdonblue wrote:Step 3. Secure the support bar/pole on the D/A side to the rear bulkhead.
Just curious. What's the D/A in D/A side mean?


I've also done a fair bit of scripting to try and get the coupling procedure you mention working so no doubt I'll be bugging you again soon with a few more questions about that if it's ok. :)


Many thanks again Dave.

Cheers,
Brendan
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