Hi all,
I've never been one with an eye for detail and started working on a route using basemapz but not TransDEM. As such, I have a route with track laid in the correct position, but it's as flat as the proverbial pancake!
Without wanting to buy (and learn to use) TransDEM or start the route again from scratch; are there any suggestions for how to give my route and surrounding scenery some elevation.
I am not fussed about perfect accuracy, just that bridges/tunnels and gradients are sensible, so if it's a manual process that will be fine.
1) Where could I find the height information? (any choice websites?)
2) How is best to implement the heights onto an existing route?
Retrospective Route Elevation
- RowanTrodd
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Re: Retrospective Route Elevation
For gradients, it's best to have the landscape in first, and then do the track after, Regarding height info, firstly I do the rather old fashioned technique of buying a book, the Middleton Press hardbacks tend to have them, also using bridge height signs:RowanTrodd wrote:Hi all,
I've never been one with an eye for detail and started working on a route using basemapz but not TransDEM. As such, I have a route with track laid in the correct position, but it's as flat as the proverbial pancake!
Without wanting to buy (and learn to use) TransDEM or start the route again from scratch; are there any suggestions for how to give my route and surrounding scenery some elevation.
I am not fussed about perfect accuracy, just that bridges/tunnels and gradients are sensible, so if it's a manual process that will be fine.
1) Where could I find the height information? (any choice websites?)
2) How is best to implement the heights onto an existing route?
roughly near the start and end of a gradient is very useful for a bit of fine tuning and finally some guesswork and finagling comes in handy, look at where over bridges and viaducts occur and underbridges, cuttings and tunnels occur for clues as to the gradient for that stretch of line.
Also knowing a bit of history about the line and the habits of the company who built it help as well, IE Brunel liked his routes as flat as possible; so the original main GWR routes the gradients tended to be very flat (unless absolutely unavoidable), which is why you get substantial structures like the Maidenhead Bridge, Sonning Cutting and Box Tunnel. For the opposite, many companies either due to lack of funds, or the original purpose, such as branch, commuter lines or cable hauled lines, tend to have quite steep gradients; or even when it was built, (lines built in the later part of the victorian era tended to have steeper gradients as ever more powerful steam engines were developed.)
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Re: Retrospective Route Elevation
There's an Ian Allan book available from 2016 called "Gradients-of-the-British-Main-Line-Railways"
Currently £9.00 on here : https://www.psbooks.co.uk/Gradients-of- ... gJgsvD_BwE
Amazon has it at £15 but there are currently second hand copies at £4.51 and above : https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=Gradients- ... nb_sb_noss
It looks to be the same as an older book I have called "BR Main Line Gradient profiles - The age of steam" which contains numerous gradient diagrams covering 6 regions of British Railways . Not all lines are covered but it's what I use for creating gradients on routes I've modelled on real life .
Second hand copy currently on Amazon for £4.29 + P&P : https://www.amazon.co.uk/BR-Main-Line-G ... 0711008752
Another possible source is Flickr , There are numerous pictures of signal box diagrams on there and most diagrams usually had a gradient diagram on part of it :
A copy of the Maghull signal box diagram - gradient diagram top left : https://www.flickr.com/photos/87851292@ ... 9/sizes/l/
Woodhead signal box - gradient diagram top right : https://www.flickr.com/photos/90214143@ ... /sizes/4k/
Modern Network rail diagram at Castleton East Junction - diagram top left : https://www.flickr.com/photos/jjm2009/4 ... /sizes/4k/
The whatdotheyknow website has various applications through the freedom of information act to Network Rail asking for access to gradient profiles , track plans and signalling diagrams . It's worth using the search function on there to see if the line your creating is available : https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/
Here's some I've found with a quick search : https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/search/g ... ofiles/all
(Note some searches have been refused)
Here's a couple from the selection
Leatherhead to Hampton court Junc (downloads towards bottom of the page) : https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... profiles_4
Nottingham - Derby - Matlock : https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... _for_notti
Currently £9.00 on here : https://www.psbooks.co.uk/Gradients-of- ... gJgsvD_BwE
Amazon has it at £15 but there are currently second hand copies at £4.51 and above : https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=Gradients- ... nb_sb_noss
It looks to be the same as an older book I have called "BR Main Line Gradient profiles - The age of steam" which contains numerous gradient diagrams covering 6 regions of British Railways . Not all lines are covered but it's what I use for creating gradients on routes I've modelled on real life .
Second hand copy currently on Amazon for £4.29 + P&P : https://www.amazon.co.uk/BR-Main-Line-G ... 0711008752
Another possible source is Flickr , There are numerous pictures of signal box diagrams on there and most diagrams usually had a gradient diagram on part of it :
A copy of the Maghull signal box diagram - gradient diagram top left : https://www.flickr.com/photos/87851292@ ... 9/sizes/l/
Woodhead signal box - gradient diagram top right : https://www.flickr.com/photos/90214143@ ... /sizes/4k/
Modern Network rail diagram at Castleton East Junction - diagram top left : https://www.flickr.com/photos/jjm2009/4 ... /sizes/4k/
The whatdotheyknow website has various applications through the freedom of information act to Network Rail asking for access to gradient profiles , track plans and signalling diagrams . It's worth using the search function on there to see if the line your creating is available : https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/
Here's some I've found with a quick search : https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/search/g ... ofiles/all
(Note some searches have been refused)
Here's a couple from the selection
Leatherhead to Hampton court Junc (downloads towards bottom of the page) : https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... profiles_4
Nottingham - Derby - Matlock : https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... _for_notti
High visibility pixels must be worn when on or about the line !!
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Re: Retrospective Route Elevation
I place ordnance survey maps onto basemaps and use them to build the route. I use the contour lines to raise the landscape and then smooth the levels. A long job best done in stages. I don't worry about accuracy of gradients, as long as the tracker matches the environment it is in, eg, cuttings, embankments etc.
Dave
Great Yorkshire Railways - a Great idea that never was!
Great Yorkshire Railways - a Great idea that never was!
- RowanTrodd
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Re: Retrospective Route Elevation
Thanks everyone, really useful information here.
The route was one built during the early days of mainline steam and thus the gradients are mercifully gradual - thanks to Francis Giles (and his armies of navvies)
Great thinking with the bridge clearance signs - certainly a good indication and one I'd have never thought of!
Dave, I think I have some old (paper) OS maps, so will have to dig them out - adding a layer of 'contour style' baseboards is another good idea that I shall have to play with.
I look forward to getting something worth showing in pictorial form - thanks again
The route was one built during the early days of mainline steam and thus the gradients are mercifully gradual - thanks to Francis Giles (and his armies of navvies)
Great thinking with the bridge clearance signs - certainly a good indication and one I'd have never thought of!
Dave, I think I have some old (paper) OS maps, so will have to dig them out - adding a layer of 'contour style' baseboards is another good idea that I shall have to play with.
I look forward to getting something worth showing in pictorial form - thanks again