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 Central Scotland - Edinburgh - Glasgow - Dunblane 
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 Post subject: Central Scotland - Edinburgh - Glasgow - Dunblane
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:04 pm 
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Seeing the progress Dave (cyberdonblue) and Mark (Marky7890) have made on their respective routes, and on advice from a well-respected content creator, I decided to start working on a DEM I've had sitting for some time now. I hadn't intended to post anything about this but perhaps in doing so, it will help me stay focused on getting things done. I've attempted this type of thing before and it's very easy to start 'hating' a route.

As the heading states, this route will cover the main parts of central Scotland and I've marked what I intend to do on the map below. The only part in doubt is beyond Alloa to Dunfermline as this isn't a passenger line at present. Timewise, I'm using a little artistic licence and hope that the route should be able to cover late 70s, 80s and 90s.

As things currently stand, I have track down from Queen Street as far as Linlithgow on both Edinburgh Glasgow lines, and as far north as Stirling (though the station is yet to be done). Most of this is to prototypical gradients, though I have needed to get inventive in some parts. Scenery wise, there isn't really anything beyond placeholder scenery to show at this time and it was good to give james73's Queen Street roof a new outing.

Cheers,
Innis

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 Post subject: Re: Central Scotland - Edinburgh - Glasgow - Dunblane
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:21 pm 
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Excellent. 8-) I wish you all the best with this as it's a big undertaking.

I've a number of half-finished assets that would help greatly on this route and I must endeavour to get them finished and released.

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 Post subject: Re: Central Scotland - Edinburgh - Glasgow - Dunblane
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:32 am 
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Oh yes, PFX! 8-) A nice little slice of Scotrail. Yum. I can see them DBSO beauties already... :drool: Sorry, I'll get me mop..

PS Happy New Year

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 Post subject: Re: Central Scotland - Edinburgh - Glasgow - Dunblane
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:42 pm 
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Haha! No need to apologise. I have a thang for the DBSO myself.

I just need to make sure I get this done. The track is the easy part. Making places look familiar is where it gets tricky.

Cheers,
Innis

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 Post subject: Re: Central Scotland - Edinburgh - Glasgow - Dunblane
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:06 pm 
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PFX wrote:
...I have a thang for the DBSO myself...
It really surprises me to hear that, Innis, considering that you have loco driving experience.

I myself can't stand DVTs or DBSOs. The modern versions were obviously designed and developed by somebody who has never been within a thousand miles of a loco and experienced how trains behave out on the main line. The lag between the action of the driver and the response from the loco a train length away is a real pain in the proverbial - especially when there's an electric loco pushing and you're trying to gauge the response time as you approach a neutral section. A loss of power, wheelslip or overload on the loco at the rear usually meant/means a nightmare for the bloke driving because he can't feel what's happing behind him until he gets a huge kick in the arse (which everyone in the train feels first) or a massive snatch (again, felt inside the train first.) A driver feels every movement in his train through his seat - but by the time he feels it on a DVT or DBSO it's too late to respond to what that movement is telling him.

There is also the argument (which I support) that it is unsafe to have a lightweight vehicle at the front of the train and the heaviest vehicle (the loco) pushing for all its worth from the back.

The system is a fallout from the steam days really; and was only ever meant for use with short, low speed, local passenger trains on short (mostly dead end) branch lines in order to negate the necessity of running round. Many of these DVTs and DBSOs were/are used on much longer trains these days and are weighted down with large interior concrete slabs because, in the event of a collision with anything on the track, they had (and still do, in my opinion) a tendency to rise up and go over the top of the obstruction. This defeats the object of having buckeye couplings which are designed to keep the whole train upright in the event of an accident because, once airborne, the rolling stock will end up just about anywhere (and even modern rolling stock doesn't have anything like the same landing characteristics as an A320 - especially when they come into contact with the likes of a tunnel wall or a platform building first.)

Sorry for steering a bit away from the thread's main intention, Innis. Good luck with the project though. Having seen the results of the Midshire project, I know you'll get this bang on too.

Cheers

Dave


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 Post subject: Re: Central Scotland - Edinburgh - Glasgow - Dunblane
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:44 pm 
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Are you sure it's just not your dodgy driving again Dave? :P :P ;)

I agree on the safety aspect. I've always thought it unsafe for a heavy loco to be pushing a 9+ rake of coaches plus DVT - but I guess after decades of it working effectively, it's proven me wrong.

Back in the early 90's, it was quite a common sighting for the loco to have run-around its train anyway and attached to the DVT - and someone from BR told me that it was because some drivers didn't like driving from the DVT due to them being lighter and supposedly dangerous if they hit an object. However, that was debunked by someone a few years ago who told me that the reason for the loco still leading the train rather than the DVT is simply because in the early 90's, the TDM system was prone to failure due to shared cabling - which was eventually rectified. I think it may have been nexusdj (the slightly less dodgy driver Dave :P ;) ) that told me that actually.


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 Post subject: Re: Central Scotland - Edinburgh - Glasgow - Dunblane
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:46 pm 
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Well, I'm not a driver, but I find it pretty surprising that DVTs/pilot vehicles play a very substantial role on railways in mainland Europe after reading your post.. Actually, non push-pull loco-hauled passenger trains are a pretty rare sight there. I can't imagine that the problems you listed can be solved, though. Still, I have never witnessed any such problems on a push-pull train. :?

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 Post subject: Re: Central Scotland - Edinburgh - Glasgow - Dunblane
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:18 pm 
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Dave, I've never actually driven from a DT/DBSO/DVT so no idea how it feels but the downsides are well documented with the Mk2 stock, including discomfort for drivers in the cab. My interest in them is more due to the fact we have former Sc 9712 at the railway so it's probably a bit sentimental for me rather than anything else.

Moving the thread back on track (ahem) there is actually some relevance with the mention of Mk2 DBSOs as the Edinburgh - Glasgow line passes through Polmont. The Polmont rail disaster in 1984 involved a Class 47 push/pull set and was so bad partly due to the DBSO propelling at the time which, due to it's light weight, rode up over a cow, derailed and was pushed round by the next carriage, this then flipped over. 13 passengers were killed in the crash.

Recommendations from the investigation resulted in all leading vehicles with an axle loading of less than 16 tonnes being fitted with deflectors and the Mk2 DBSOs had additional ballast added to increase weight at the front.

Cheers,
Innis

Once I have anything resembling interesting progress, I'll start posting screen shots here.

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 Post subject: Re: Central Scotland - Edinburgh - Glasgow - Dunblane
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:01 pm 
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Today's update is as follows.

Track down from Linlithgow to Winchburgh with gradients and alignments fixed.

Track down from Winchburgh to Newbridge to be corrected.

I can almost see Edinburgh now though the more complex trackwork and quad lines will slow things up somewhat.

A query from me to you all. I've added the junction at Manuel, but would there be a desire for the line all the way down to Bo'ness?

I've included a WIP screenshot purely because this is one of my favourite parts of the line. There's a lengthy cutting between Winchburgh and Philipstoun in the middle of which, one side suddenly drops away to reveal a small clearing with a pond in it. It's not very scenic at all but it's always piqued my interest when passing at speed as you get such a brief glimpse of it, so I've made sure to include it here (this is only very simple scenery added at present).

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Cheers,
Innis

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 Post subject: Re: Central Scotland - Edinburgh - Glasgow - Dunblane
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:46 am 
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A few WIP shots from various areas on the route.

First, under the canopy at Queen Street.

Image


The entrance to the infamous Queen Street tunnel. Contrary to popular belief, the right hand portal was never a tunnel. The station throat should be narrower but the portals prevent me doing that.

Image


Looking back into Queen Street. Still a bridge to add in front of the canopy. The other two are now no longer visible. The seemingly pointless lattice girders in the cutting at one time supported the signal box over the tracks.

Image


Carmuirs East box at the Larbert Junction. A nice selection of semaphore signalling around here (alas, no longer).

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Looking East towards Polmont station.

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Last edited by PFX on Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Central Scotland - Edinburgh - Glasgow - Dunblane
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:50 am 
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I didn't think anything could get me more excited than the nearly-finished TANE-ified Midshire Mainline, but this has managed. This is my "local" railway, and Edinburgh to Glasgow via Falkirk is one of my most frequent journeys, so it's delightful to see someone working on a new version.


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 Post subject: Re: Central Scotland - Edinburgh - Glasgow - Dunblane
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:26 pm 
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Midshire is still on hold as the latest beta update hasn't fixed the existing issue. Like you, this is my local railway and I've travelled the route from Stirling to Edinburgh or Glasgow hundreds of times over the years.

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 Post subject: Re: Central Scotland - Edinburgh - Glasgow - Dunblane
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:26 pm 
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A brief update today.

Track now extends beyond Linlithgow to Dalmeny junction (heading north over the bridge to North Queensferry, and south to just beyond Edinburgh airport) and as far as Ratho. Things will probably start to slow up a bit on the approach to Edinburgh but overall, in terms of planned mileage, I'm probably about 75% although there is a lot more to do in the shape of sidings, platforms, etc.

I'm pleased with progress so far so may well add in the Alloa to Dunfermline line.

Cheers,
Innis

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 Post subject: Re: Central Scotland - Edinburgh - Glasgow - Dunblane
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:32 pm 
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Looking good Innis. Very impressive. ;)

Cheers

Dave :D


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 Post subject: Re: Central Scotland - Edinburgh - Glasgow - Dunblane
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:54 pm 
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PFX wrote:
A few WIP shots from various areas on the route.

First, under the canopy at Queen Street.

Image


The entrance to the infamous Queen Street tunnel. Contrary to popular belief, the right hand portal was never a tunnel. The station throat should be narrower but the portals prevent me doing that.

Image


Looking back into Queen Street. Still a bridge to add in front of the canopy. The other two are now no longer visible. The seemingly pointless lattice girders in the cutting at one time supported the signal box over the tracks.

Image


That is excellent. I started making a model of Queen Street (the station to go with my roof) and it's one of those things I really need to get on with finishing.

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